Thanks for explaining.
My advice is though to use one betsize on flop. One betsize on turn and only do different betsizes on river. For now. Until you get a really good grasp on things. River needs multiple betsizes, lots of BB/100 to be gained.
Great, will do that for now.
There's one more thing thing I'm having problem with.
When we're only betting polar our checking range are mostly medium strength hands and air. So if we check and he bets our range is protected, we can call him with good hands(sdv hands and some drawing hands that we didn't put in our bluffing range) and fold air. Putting some nut hands in our checking range to trap doesn't make sense imo, since our range is already protected.
But what to do with our small size betting range if we decide to have one?
If it's only made of medium strength hands then it is very exploitable. Villain can then always raise with stronger hands balanced with bluffs and fold the rest. In that case it would be always better to just check/call those hands.
So how should we protect that range? should we balance it with bluffs or some stronger/nut hands that can call him down?
Nov. 23, 2020 | 10:02 p.m.
zoom nl10, no reads on villain.
Im calling villain's 3bet with: JJ-22, AQs-A8s, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, AQo-AJo, KQo
Good flop for villains range, so I don't have a raising range here.
I'm calling with: JJ-55, AJs, AsQs, AhQh, AcQc, KJs, QJs, JTs, AJo
Turn is a brick and villain bets big again. He's probably holding an overpair, JJ and 66 are unlikely. I don't think he has enough bluffs here since the board is so dry, so I think I can fold here a lot.
I folded AJ in this hand, but I think I should call with them as bluffcathers. All AJ combos expect the ones with a club. They don't block villains flush draws but block AA.
I'm also calling here with 55, 66, JJ. I can only have 7 combos of those so I should probably only call 50% of the time with non club AJ, 4 combos.
I don't know if I should also call with AcQc, I'm not sure I would get value often enough on the river when I hit the flush.
Nov. 22, 2020 | 6:26 p.m.
I didn't quite understand one thing in this video, so if you could please help me explain.
In the second example of the video he mentioned that we wanna bet 40-60%size medium strength hands for protection and at the same time still be betting big size with more polar range. Basically we would have 2 betting sizes, each for a different part of our betting range. Did I get that right?
Does this also apply for the flop c-betting strategy then? As I remember when we would bet polar, our medium strength hands would be simply check and not a smaller bet(for protection). So we would always have just one betting size (big or small, depending on the board) and the rest would be check.
So now I wonder if we should just always have 1 betting range like we learned with c-betting? should we have 2 betting ranges like it was shown in bet sizing video? or is it situation depending?
If someone could clarify this for me I would be very happy:)
Nov. 20, 2020 | 6:27 p.m.
I'm having trouble posting partypoker's hand history.
I exported hands from partypoker to pokertracker4 and tried to copy a hand(RAW) to forum, but every time i try, it says invalid hand and I can't continue, I would really appreciate it if someone could help me with that.
Nov. 20, 2020 | 10:19 a.m.
thanks for replying:)
As our opening range tightens so does BB's range. So we aren't range betting on all flops. Only flops that connect well with your opening range. UTG for example we mainly have broadway cards and Ax. BB will have more middling cards (J-8) compared to UTG.
Yea I meant what I said only for the high/dry flops.
Okay, so the further the preflop raiser is from the btn the stronger his range is as well as BB's calling range. That makes sense, but that would still mean that the preflop raiser prefers high/dry boards and the BB's range is better on mid/wet ones, so if I'm correct the strategy shouldn't change that much from utg to btn.
Mostly OOP range cbetting isn't a thing. Range cbetting OOP is the exception, not the rule.
Do you mean that just for the range betting or for betting with any merged range?
Nov. 19, 2020 | 9:05 p.m.
preflop play. Solvers and AI are good for blindly picking a preflop range, but remember that not all hands are the same ev and you must be more advance to play lets say, ATo in UTG for a 0.01ev raise as oppose to something like AA. Just start by picking out hands you are comfortable playing and add in marginal hands as you get more experience.
Good advice. Currently I'm using RFI ranges from the ground up course, I think they're a bit tighter than what the solvers would recommend, so probably ideal for my skill level.
Dont give too much credit on accordingly defends in % at the micros! Noone will really exploit you for folding a little too much overall.
Agree, well I'm not planning to balance ranges to the exact %, but just to have an idea of how the ranges should look like. Also I don't want to learn a strategy thats gonna be useless after micros.
But if you play zoom it should be possible to get a somwehat reliable sample (for VPIP/PFR/3b) from most players pretty quick.
Focus mainly on players that have somewhat fishy stats (high VpiP/low PFR/3b or randomly high stats everywhere).
Attack these players with solid ranges and avoid "making moves for the sake of poker" vs regulars.
I just switched to partypoker because of the better rakeback deal and hud's are banned there, so other than pool reads I don't think I'll be able to get much more.
But I don't really mind it, as I said in the post I'm not really trying to focus on exploiting anyone right now. I want to learn solid default strategy first and after some time when I'll have a better feel for it, I'll switch back to pokerstars from time to time and just play regular tables with a hud to practice my exploitative play. And also focusing on fishy players of course:)
Thank you both for your help:)
Nov. 19, 2020 | 10:10 a.m.
Need some help here:)
So I've started working on my default strategy last week(dont know if I should call it gto since I'm probably starting with some simplified version). It seems to me like the most important thing to have in poker, especially on zoom tables where it's hard to get reads on your opponents(except for the pool reads of course). I know playing exploitative is more profitable especially in micros where players have huge leaks but I'm just gonna ignore that until I get a good understanding of some balanced default strategy, it should be worth it in the long run I think. Also finding and exploiting other players leaks after learning that can't be to hard since you can quickly see where they deviate from the optimal line.
My first question is, what should I be doing beside training videos and hand reviews/constructing ranges to get better? is it to soon for solvers?
Basically what I'm doing now is: I go watch a video(currently I'm studying from the ground up course) and then I try to implement that strategy in my game when I'm reviewing my hands. If I learn that I should have a polar raising range on wet flops for example I would find those hands in hand history and I would create ranges for each group(raises,calls,bluffs,folds).
Thats where I have a few more questions.
- How to balance ranges? I know that if you bet pot size then 33% of your range should be bluffs (same as you would calculate pot odds), that way your opponent cannot exploit you, that make sense. I guess with calling you should just look at his breakeven %. If he bets pot then you should continue with at least 50% of your hands. If you fold more than he can just always bluff and make profit. That's all I know about balancing ranges so if you could help me with that please.
- When I'm creating ranges for my default(gto) strategy, should I ever think of villain's range? If so in what way? Putting villain on a specific range makes no sense, since we're not planning on exploiting him.
Nov. 18, 2020 | 8:05 a.m.
That's true, it should be a fold, but you mentioned to me in the other thread to start working on my default(gto) strategy.
What would the gto play be without any player pool reads?
Not having a calling range makes me exploitable, he could just bluff me every time since I'm never calling, right? If thats so then I think I should be calling with top of my range, in this hand TT.
Nov. 16, 2020 | 9:41 p.m.
If you are playing a GTO style you dont need to worry about your opponents being to passive or too aggressive. Just play your default strat and print from their mistakes. If you dont have a solid GTO default strat start working on one.
Yes, that's my number 1 goal right now, to make a solid strategy. I've started studying last week with from the grounds up course and it helped me a lot already. Also I've stopped focusing on hud's and started making decisions based on my strategy.
This reaction is irrational altho common among microstakes players. If they are deviating from equilibrium why should you be angry? Thats awesome, just exploit them. Would you prefer if your opponent played closer to GTO?
I totally agree, I wasn't thinking right.
Nov. 16, 2020 | 9:25 p.m.
MP: $11.21 (Hero)
TT are in my checking range
he bets the river. I think his range here with this size is pretty wide, top pair + and some low SV hands as bluffs.
I'm calling here with my top pairs, JJ-KK and some weak two pairs: KK-JJ, AJs, A8s-A6s, A4s, A2s, Ts9s, Th9h, Td9d, AJo
and raising with the strongest 2pair and a set: AT, TT. I'm not sure if should have some bluffs here ,maybe some hand with Q of clubs that blocks some of his flush combos.
He 3bets, I'm not sure what to do. If I should have a calling range here then TT would be it. But they're pretty much bluff catchers since villain isn't value 3betting here with hands worse than a flush imo. I guess the question here is if villain can 3bet bluff this river.
What would be the standard play here?
BB wins $11.09
Rake is $0.52
Nov. 16, 2020 | 3:10 p.m.
Hy guys, I've just finished episode 7 and I learned a lot from it. Love the course so far.
There's just this one question I have. In the video we only looked into BTN vs BB C-betting, so I'm not really sure how to apply this strategy in other positions on dry/high boards
other positions vs BB
The further away we are from BTN the stronger our range is so range betting makes even more sense, right?
SB vs BB
in this position BB still has very wide range, but we're OP so it's harder for us to realize our equity thats why I don't think range betting is ever usefull. I'm thinking of just doing the same thing on high/dry boards (bet small with a merged range) but instead of betting 100% of my range I would remove some trashy hands, making my c-betting range a bit narrower and stronger. Is this okay or should I just always bet bigger with more selective/polar range?
other OP spots (UTG vs BTN, MP vs CO, CO vs BTN,...)
what to do here? go always selective?
In more early positions like UTG vs MP/CO, MP vs CO I think I should just always be c-betting selective(polar), since callers range is not that wide and it's also pretty strong. I'm not sure if I should ever bet with a merged range.
However in spots where caller is a BTN having a merged c-betting range makes sense imo. BTN has a capped, wide range so I think it could work. I still don't think betting 100% of my range is a good idea so I would go a bit narrower just like in SB vs BB spot.
I know we learned that we should mostly not have a SB calling range, but there are still a lot of people who do it. Against them I would just play like we learned in the video - range betting dry/high boards and selective betting on wet/mid ones.
In those spots fold equity is lower plus players call with stronger range than in headsup pots, so a lot of the weaker SV hands (top pairs with bad kicker, second pairs) wont get called by worse so merged range doesnt sound like a good option.
Nov. 16, 2020 | 10:53 a.m.
work on mental game, it is benefit similar or even more than strategy/theoretical knowledge.
For sure, will work on that. I found focusing on decision rather than money results to be very helpful. And I also just try to quit as soon as the tilt kicks in.
Nov. 15, 2020 | 10:21 p.m.
I played a couple thousand hands more and it's not as bad as I previously stated. There are few players that really take 3betting to far but other than that it's fine. Also I can play 50% more hands on 2 zoom tables than I did before on 4 regular ones so as you mentioned that probably gave me an illusion of higher 3bet frequencies.
I would establish a solid 4 betting range, mix in some calls with AA and check raise most every board besides KKx and QQx. This will help clean up the calling range. I would play KK/QQ/JJ are pure 4 bets, find something to add some polarity that can out flop stuff like QQ/JJ/TT that calls your 4 bet (A5s/A4s/ATo/KQo) plus they have some good blocking characteristics.
I'll definitely 4bet wider especially in late positions. 4bet JJ+, AK with some frequency and also put in some bluffs like A5s. I'll mix in some AA calls but only against more agressive players.
Nov. 15, 2020 | 10:11 p.m.
I think a bigger flop sizing with a more defined polar range is more effective on a bunch of boards (range advantage spots, decent boards for us, boards they will pay too much to draw on, etc.). We can tone down the sizing on rainbow and dry boards.
Thats very helpful, I'm gonna do exactly that. I'll use the same size for my whole betting range, but the size will depend on a board texture. I will bet bigger with more polarized range on wet, range advantage boards,.. and bet smaller with more merged range on dry boards
Of course when I'm betting smaller my range is also wider which makes my betting frequency higher.
Also what makes an advantage in a range?
Is it how well the range connects with the board or is it the pure equity,
for example: I 3bet preflop from SB with only my stronger hands and villain calls wide in BTN with a lot of mid pp, mid connectors. Then the flop like 9h7h4d shows. Who has a range advantage here? my range has more equity but villains range connects way better with the flop than mine.
I probably approach this spot by checking back some of the merged portion of my range and going bigger here. I think your bet size is fine, I think it can be bigger, not a fan of going smaller. I think your hand choice is fine of course. I think I want to apply quite a bit of pressure here and mostly bet with what I can continue with.
I agree, hands like 88-TT, A7 that I previously put in my betting range would be a much better check, this would leave my betting range more polarized and easier to bet bigger with.
We already know that micro pools typically draw poorly. For example, on your board, he has a ton of FD's and quite a few combo draws. Naked flush draws hit turn <20% of the time. Blocked naked flush draws hit turn slightly less often. To profitably call, they need to pay the right price (this is assuming we never pay off when the catch). I am speaking specifically about their FD range getting from flop to turn. Combo draws have more equity and are 100% to continue vs most any reasonable bet size. So, in short, I would bet QQ/KK/AA bigger (can get calls from his overpairs, FD's, TP's, etc), sets/2pr obviously, Axhh, some Kxhh (especially K2hh) and combo draws. These guys will x/c 2/3 to pot, x/f non flush turns
Yea, I've noticed that, they rarely fold their naked flush draws no matter the price. Another good reason to bet bigger and make more money when they miss.
K is really a brick for him, K7 gets there and that's about it since I don't think the non AKhh is check/raising here)
How can K be a brick, doesn't it complete his flush draws or do you think he would never raise flop with Jh- flush draws?
in a trackable environment, you are going to have to mix it up. First nutted hand I would consider betting smaller to mix it up with be 22 with the 2 or hearts since we block flush completion. If you get a ton of history, you want some stuff that makes you harder to read.
Okay, that makes sense but I'm just gonna skip that for now :), I need to learn the basics first. Also I don't think players in micros gives much attention to that plus it's hard to get big history on other players because of the big player pool.
I see plenty of guys x/r flop and check when they make their hand on the turn looking to trap. So we just counter that by checking back the appropriate range when the bad card hits on turn. If we discover that he checks too weak, we can probably add some more continues on flop and start to bluff a few more "bad" turns. I don't need razor sharp reads in my environment. They flat too wide preflop (way too wide, I am talking them calling 19% OTB vs EP opens. I don't really consider wide calls from BB as much of a leak as I do their calls from MP/CO/BTN/SB), they draw poorly postflop, they check strong on too many turns after check raising flop, they x/c x/c x/f entirely too much, etc.
I'll definitely keep that in mind.
Sorry this went on too long. This is just my thoughts. I know the big sizes work pretty well in spots like these in my environment. There is nothing wrong with thinking outside the "standard" box and experimenting with things. Try out a 10,000 hand sample where you range bet smaller on the right boards and then go more polar/bigger on boards such as this (you do have range advantage in the value portion of your range). Try it out and compare your winrates. I have tried all sorts of stuff (100% BTN open for min, 100% SB open, min opening from all positions aside from SB, checking range OOP (who hasn't done this one), etc). There were some successes and some failures (could be sample thing, could be just a poor choice of strategy, could be a combination of both). I have found that the bigger/polar approach was outperforming the other approaches on the flop so I keep it in there to this day for the most part.
A long post but I've learned a lot from it so thanks again :)
I'm gonna try different things for sure, but first I want to learn a solid strategy, It feels like I'm all over the place now.
Can you give me some tips on how to start.
I'm thinking of going through the course: From the ground up and maybe also purchasing Cory Mikesell book: Poker foundations from RIO store. Those two thing should give me good fundamentals I think. And also keep reviewing my hands and posting them here on forum.
Are there any other things I should be doing to improve?
Nov. 12, 2020 | 4:30 p.m.
Hey guys, I've just started playing on nl10 zoom tables yesterday and I quickly noticed that they are much different than the regular ones.
There's so much agression especially preflop that I've just started tilting. I'm getting 3bet preflop all the time, and they usually continue with the agression throughout the whole hand, sometimes with air. It's really frustrating.
Also there's ante which give you more reason to fight for the pot, because of that I thought at first that I should make my preflop open ranges wider but then that makes me even more vulnerable to 3bets. I'm not sure how to adjust.
One thing I'm guessing it would help is to make open raise sizes a bit bigger and open ranges a bit tighter. I'm thinking 3,5bb from early and 2,5/3bb from late positions.
I would love to hear your suggestions.
Nov. 11, 2020 | 10:28 p.m.
So, on the turn, I agree in choosing a larger size for a few reasons. We get FAT value from all of his made hands and I don't there is much elasticity to his folding range. Basically I mean, he is folding 99/88/air here whether you bet the size you chose or a bigger size. To me, the bigger size is more effective on the turn.
I totally agree.
Do you think it would be useful to have two different betting sizes for different parts of the range. It doesn't make sense on the turn but on the flop I think it might be good. For example I would bet big only with my strongest hands and my strongest bluffs: high overpairs, sets and nut draws. With my smaller overpairs, top pairs and weaker bluffs I would bet smaller.
Does that makes me to easy to exploit?
River I guess you are close to 50/50 or 45/55. If he only gets to river with flushes+, then getting stacks in a mistake by like one/two combos.
Can he have flushes on the river, wouldn't he bet those on the turn?
Nov. 11, 2020 | 10:02 p.m.
MP: $13.93 (Hero)
I think Villain can have all those hands in his calling range: 99-22, AJs-A2s, K5s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 96s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, AJo-A8o, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 98o. Some of those hands like A5s can be in his bluffing 3bet range I just don't know which ones exactly.
I'm thinking of betting with all of my sets and high overpairs for value, top pairs and smaller overpairs for protection and bluff with all of my flush draws and a gutshot straight draw: 77+, 55, 22, A7s, Ah8h+, Ah6h, Ah4h-Ah2h, Kh9h+, Qh9h+, Jh9h+, Th9h, 98s, 87s (a good 1/3 of my range).
Since my range is somewhat polarized I think I should be betting 2/3pot.
Villain raises, I'm putting his range on sets, two pairs, flush draws and open ended straight draw: 77, 55, 22, AhJh-Ah8h, Ah6h, Ah4h-Ah2h, Kh8h+, Kh6h, Qh8h+, Qh6h, Jh8h+, Th8h+, 86s, 75s
I'm continuing here with my sets, JJ+(bluff catchers) and all my K+ high flush draws: JJ+, 77, 55, 22, Ah8h+, Ah6h, Ah4h-Ah2h, Kh9h+
I'm betting here with all my flushes and top two sets: KK, 77, AhQh-Ah8h, Ah6h, Ah4h-Ah2h (only hands that beat him). I should be betting way bigger than 1.69 tho, something closer to pot size should be better imo since I'm ahead of all of his continuing range. Also my flushes are vulnerable against river full house so make him pay more to see the last card is also a good idea.
I would be betting here only with my quads and full house: KK, 77. Checking back my flushes.
MP lost and shows a flush, Ace high.
BB wins $26.69
Rake is $1.26