Coming over from the Transitioning to PLO playlist.
Vs Ike, you defend IP with Q972sssx and he checks 732r.
You check back and what I hear makes sense to me. You're giving up some % of ev that comes as folds in order to get more ev from turns that Ike catches up in some degree, or you're doing it to strengthen your checking range on a lot of turns, or both.
You raised the turn 6ss and never mention at all Ike having 45xx here. My takeaway from that is that at least at the time, you assume Ike would never ck the flop with 45, or it was inconsequential enough relative to the rest of his range that you don't mention it, or it was assumed as basic info he of course could have some nuts but that's not that important, or it was a fluke that you didn't mention it, I imagine all of that goes out the window if Ike was 40bb's. Was it/is it common to short stack in PLO?
I'm a live NL player almost primarily, having transitioned from mtt's 5 years ago, and now have the opportunity to work with a PLO pro in my area. I want to absorb more than I miss from the opportunity. I apologize if my questions aren't the right questions, or are too simple, or irrelevant.
Feb. 19, 2019 | 5:59 a.m.
Id like to talk about coaching for pio. Im pretty good at math, and kahneman has been a favorite of mine for a while now. Prospect theory is beautiful and one of my favorite parts of my university experience. My bs is in economics and i focused on behavior. Ive mentioned previously i try to go max exploit too often based on assumptions whos accuracy can mean massive differences in ev, mostly downward. Ill look at cap vs polar stuff some more. Thank you.
Feb. 2, 2019 | 11:29 p.m.
Hey Tyler Forrester ! Not sure where to post this, and I'm not totally sure which videos I was watching where you discussed them, but this is on MOP and Tipton's book.
I've owned physical copies of MOP and Tipton's Heads Up books since college (almost 6 years ago now). I like math and I spend 50 hours a week in Excel between poker and work. Are there videos or a series of videos you recall where concepts within these books are explained? I don't have the drive or time to dedicate toward the true work into rereading those books. I know I didn't grasp a lot of it, and it's been a few years since reading, though I've gone through pieces of Tipton's book several times since then. I feel they're probably beaten to death across several hours of videos. I've watched Sulsky's Toy Game series and have started watching it again. I've watched your videos for the most part. I'm not a winning player in 25-100nl bot lineups, and I have a billion holes in my game. I recognize and take advantage of holes in other peoples games, but I'd like to stop consistently losing vs. some of the people in my fields, and would like to stop feeling lost when I jump into a reg pool on WPN. I don't feel lost on Ignition, but that's not the point. I don't know where to focus.
Jan. 31, 2019 | 5:28 p.m.
At 19:45ish, you're talking about ck/raising as a bluff. I wouldn't have considered bet/folding strong top pairs on that runout, but I play with active players that don't think incredibly deep. If your opponents let you ck/raise bluff those turns, are you doing it more often than the flush draws? I don't know what other hands you'd have, but that feels like an amazing time to overbluff. Counter to that, in my games where bet/calling the turn is the normal, I'm thinking of leading small with the draws, betting large when I have trips. I played a hand last week where I overbetted the turn and blank river on this type of runout (slight difference in ranges. I overlimped vs a whale while in co, btn raised) and was snapped off without any thought whatsoever. If my opponents don't raise the turn vs a lead with AJ/AQ, it sounds like betting small with the draws would work as a good exploit. But then they also end up on this turn with air in many occasions, and will float with air. So that gets me back to thinking overbetting both hand types is best, and ck/folding misses on the river.
Jan. 29, 2019 | 11:43 p.m.
Tyler Forrester Thanks for making this video. I'm about halfway through and I'm loving this rant about maniacs and seeing crazy action early on in a session, after the T9s vs AKs AKQT runout. That's a pretty solid example of making a Bayesian inference. I try not to do this too much because I believe I try to use it as justification for bluff catching too often, but dang is it useful.
Jan. 29, 2019 | 11:30 p.m.
I've been watching and rewatching Tyler Forrester's videos, and watching Ben Sulsky's Toy Game series, over the last two months. I'd say most of the money I've spent on RIO has to go to the Tyler Forrester revenue category. I play almost exclusively live, with the occasional 2 table cash session from 25nl to 100nl, or a random tournament. I work nights a few days per week, and my game options are limited to tough games with harder working people (be it bot implementers or true professionals) or nothing at all. So live is my stuff. I play in a weekly 25/50cent game that starts off $100 deep, usually ending the evening playing $300-$500 deep and rebuys occurring. I also have access to a variety of raked homegames at the 1/2 level. I don't have anything to write about hand history wise, as I'll save that for another thread. But I'm writing this as I'm still excited over the scenario I found myself in last night.
I am required by my position to be awake in the middle of the night. This Thursday, I took the opportunity the slow night gave and drove the 35 minutes to the law firm to join in the raked 1/2 game, fully planning on eating as much as possible to offset the high costs. I walked in the door and there are 4 drunk business owners with 1k in front of them, straddling and blind raising (in the sb vs a btn straddle) upwards to $30. I didn't realize this game played so big, but wasn't about to drive home. I've studied shortstack math in icmizer and excel pretty much to death, and figured I'll just take all the easy spots they're offering. The biggest whale has nearly 2,000 dollars in hundreds of chips just smashed together in a pile. I bought in for $300 and ran it to $1800 doing nothing but putting the majority of my money in preflop as a 70% favorite vs his range, and stacking off. I got $600 in preflop with QQ vs 47o. I didn't even know this was possible. I saw it, almost refused to believe it wasn't a show to angle someone, and then decided to outline my adjustments. I've never played 5/10 before, and this game was regularly a $10 straddle, and I quickly doubled. I decided to just go linear as hell and fold everything that didn't fit the 70% plan. I also ate 4 bowls of chicken teriyaki and the guy's venmo wouldn't let him send anymore. It felt weird, but he's loaded and fine, so I feel great.
Jan. 26, 2019 | 12:22 p.m.
Awesome. Its been years since i was a bovada reg, so i dont know how much difficulty you face in converting hands or storing them. If its too cumbersome for your playing to review in that way, ill find the value in this format.
Jan. 16, 2019 | 7:43 p.m.
Enhoyed the video, Tyler Forrester
I got a lot or value out of repeatedly watching the specific themed videos youve done. (Ie river check raise, turn check raise, bluff catching 3bet pots etc) and was wondering if you plan to do something similar. I know for myself, it is difficult to gain the same level of insight hearing and watching a live review with many kinds of scenarios instead of reviews on a specific filter set.
Bluff catching river as the pfr on paired boards, the bet ck bet line ip or oop. No worries or rush. Just wondering.
Jan. 16, 2019 | 2:37 p.m.
New to the table, less than 15 minutes in. Prior action by myself is I opened the cutoff to $10, got called by both blinds and didn't cbet a J74ss board in position, folding the turn. Another hand I called in the big blind closing the action four ways and folded the flop. My opponent in this hand looks like a serious player, and at the time I believed to be a pro waiting on a seat change to the bigger game. He's a white guy in his late 30's, wearing a hoodie, talked about someone else at the table starting to get bored and opening up their turn continuing ranges. It was something I heard while buying my chips at the cashier. He straddles first to act to $6 at an 8 handed table.
Two recreational players call. One is an Asian woman in her early 40's. She asked about the rake structure on a pot she had won, leading me to think she would play logically, trying to see cheap flops and make hands. She looks like a limp/call 45o type of person, not a limp/call K3s type of person. She has $300 in front. The other caller is social with the guy I believe to be a professional. They come off as friends, so I assume he plays here most of the week. He's probably 50 and has close to $1,000.
Small blind folds. I have KcKx and raise to $30 off a $290 stack. Straddler has yet to look at his cards. When he does, he holds for a few seconds before calling, almost careful not to show much of anything. The callers fold.
I put the straddlers range on suited broadway, maybe AQ+, maybe TT/JJ. It doesn't make a ton of sense for me to think that this player definitely cold calls with all his pocket pairs or other implied odds kind of hands. I haven't seen much, so it won't take much at all for me to disregard this read, but give all the things pointing to a serious thinking player, and few pointing to recreational, I can't see him calling knowing I have a $280 stack, even with the two original limpers.
($66 after rake, $250 effective) Qx6c5c
I think he'll continue with AQs, KQs, QJs, AJc, AQc, TT/JJ. That's 20 combos. Hands that will continue on most turns are AQs, KQs, QJs, AJc, AQc, which is 8 combos.
($144, $210 effective) Qs6c5c9d
I believe we're in the 8 combo world and plan to shove all but Q or A rivers, assuming one pair will call me even on a club river given the size of the pot and my bet size. I'm not really sure if that means ck/folding for 1/3 pot or not, because I don't know how confident I'm supposed to be with my ranging.
($344, $110 effective) Qs6c5c9dTc
All in, call.
Now, I'm questioning whether or not I should bet closer to pot on the flop, as I don't think any of the hands I listed will respond elastically. That helps me shove all in on the turn for a pot sized bet. I'm wrestling with this because maybe QX makes a hero fold, leaving me to be called by only AQcc, AJcc, both of which are only losing about $25 in EV.
Most of the live poker I play is deep stacked, even with straddle, so being only 50bb's I'm not stoked or sure. I'd love some input on which of the two lines to take.
Dec. 27, 2018 | 7:41 a.m.
Hello Tyler Forrester
You touched on something with the AcQ hand that clicks internally with me. I used to play strong draws very aggressively because I figured I'd get 100% equity against whatever portion of the opponent's range that folds - instead of say 60%, and vs the stronger portion of the range I'd always have around 50% minus rake. I don't know why or how I got to that thought process, but your comments about their range almost certainly being polar (and not merged) solidified it for me. Vs a merged range, that strategy would kill because most of it isn't happy and eventually finds a fold. But vs a polar, there's no point to play it as a ck/raise. Thanks!
Dec. 25, 2018 | 8:52 a.m.
I straddle UTG to $1 and the HJ double straddles to $2
Folds to the small blind who is a super lag who 3bets too small imo in oop pots. Regardless, his range is like most pairs 66+, Q8s+, J9s+, AT+, KTs+. I've literally been 3bet by this guy with Q8hh after opening utg 10 handed. We're super deep so I can fathom not comprehending complex lines that would make this hand work, but he's oop and I have a stronger range when he does this. Native American or Mexican guy in his mid 30's. He's got a pretty good job managing a distribution chain and is definitely a smart guy.
Small blind raises to $6.
Big blind is a new player. He's a shaved head white guy in his late 20's, sitting on $100. He's playing games on his phone and texting people. The atmosphere here is really social, so this is somewhat out of the ordinary and tells me he's probably a solid reg postflop.
Big blind calls $6.
The double straddle is a guy who will call with everything suited, 3bet 99+ AQ+. I see he already has $4 in his hands to call.
I have AJo and 3bet to $25. I plan to fold to any aggression from anyone because this game is strictly linear 4bet ranges and at best it's 99/TT.
However, the lag can call me with a decent amount of the hands he opened with, he probably plays 97s oop here. I figured BB was never putting another dollar in and I'd be happy to go to the flop IP with barely 3spr with a stronger range than my opponent.
I tried to give as much information as possible, so does anyone have any comments on this?
Dec. 20, 2018 | 11:54 p.m.
UTG Straddle to $1.
Next to act is a guy who talks about solvers and using Flopzilla (though I'm pretty sure he was successful maybe 10 years ago, he doesn't know how to use Pio [I mean, neither do I but I don't go talking about it in a live home game], he probably hasn't touched Flopzilla in years) He's been complaining about the evening in a jovial manner. He's down maybe $10 from his $140 buy-in, there's been 300bb pots pretty frequently and I'm sure he's at least a little tilted that he hasn't gotten to take advantage of any of those scenarios. White guy in his mid 30's with a beard, he's also a teacher. We're nearing the end of his session. He opens to $3 off $130.
In the cutoff, we have a super lag who may or may not be breakeven to a winner on a technical standpoint in our game, he drinks and he tilts pretty quickly. He buys in for $200 at what is 80% of the time a $.25/.50 game, and adds on cash as he dwindles (usually in $100 increments) He 3bets very wide, probably all pairs, suited connectors down to 76s, suited one gappers like T8s, J9s, suited broadway, broadway aces. He 3bets to $10
Our game has a lot of 3bet bluffing from the same people, but there's very very little 4betting that isn't just a linear range. It's usually QQ+, AK and then is more pairs and AQ+ for the aggressive players. I feel confident in this read, but could easily be swayed by seeing a showdown or bluff that tells me otherwise. I've been playing with these people for over a year.
I am in the small blind with QcQd. Because I expect the lag to call with only maybe 1/3 of the combinations that he 3b with, and I expect him to actually cbet the flop 100% of the time when checked to (this is a leak of his - maybe not 100%, but he's cbeting A4 on KT5 if checked to heads up or three ways), I thought it was going to be more profitable to check/shove any non Ace/King flop (assuming the original opener just calls here, which is probably happening) than to 4bet and bet the flop shove the turn. I've never been in a scenario where I thought that would be the case, as it's not really often I run into people 3betting 20% and cbetting 100%, but this felt right in the moment.
I call. Folds to SolverGuy who calls.
Check, check, Lag bets a single green chip for $25. He has $100 in 20's and maybe $15 in whites and reds.
I jam $80
Solver calls with $40 behind.
This is obviously not standard 6 handed only 90bb deep (straddled pot), and I have to be really confident in my reads on lag for this to be more profitable than 4betting. 20% 3bet, 100% cbet when checked to. With stats like that, can anyone comment on this kind of range shift?
Dec. 20, 2018 | 11:44 p.m.
I play an aggressive high variance style that barring other information, means putting in a lot of money with breakeven propositions because it allows for weird reactions to the polar parts of my range. It's hard to time right, and I try to focus up and prep for sessions where it's my intention. I play primarily live, and some of my pool will absolutely bet tiny to induce a raise. But I've seen TONS of folds in my old databases bombing over these tiny blocker bets. I used to play a lot of 10nl and this was huge. Going after spots where I think I have 100% equity (spots where they have a 100% folding range) is probably a good money maker. It doesn't really work in tournaments, and you can't do it for small raises. They don't want to check/call a big hand when they're losing, and they think it's okay to lose the microbet. At least that's what I think they're thinking. I think that's enough info for me to want to try forcing folds.
Dec. 18, 2018 | 11:43 p.m.
On the Ad7h hand ~4:20, when you fold the river - our opponents betting range is two pair+, and if they were or a more active player, they could additionally have suited connectors as bluffs. But because the player pool is almost certainly underbluffing this line and runout, their range is exclusively two pair+. Does that mean we're assuming their turn betting range after checking back is more balanced or has lots of bluffs/less than top pair bets in it?
I've been an elite sub for a month now and I pretty much watch every video you put out. I'm occasionally in the 1/2 zone pool as a rec on good days, and I almost exclusively play deep live low stakes. Do you have any coach recommendations? I'm trying to maximize my use of the subscription while I have time off from work and have found it difficult to find another I like. Any suggestions?
Dec. 18, 2018 | 9:40 p.m.
I think you played fine all the way down, and on the river, I would heavily consider bombing it to fold out a shitty ten. I'm assuming this line is almost certainly a weak 2nd pair, and I don't think I need to pay for the note and attack future spots. I would just start it now. If it's wrong and this is a nonboat 3 or a T inducing a raise every time, then I start attacking his ck/call range on similar boards. I don't think you should put any 6's in his range though. It doesn't make sense (to me) to check/raise any 6x here. If we were to put 6's in the ck/raise range on the flop, I think we have to put a LOT of hands in the ck/raise range, and we can attack it anyway.
Dec. 18, 2018 | 9:09 p.m.
I could get behind limping I suppose, but I'd rather keep the SPR as large as possible and don't want to open larger to get heads up instead of 4-ways. Raise size doesn't really have an effect on most of the players in the game as long as it's not more than $5. We have lots of cold calls or limp/calls for 10x. Even the winning players (who make $200+ a session usually) will open larger based on hand strength because there are only 2 players that recognize that's what happens. We have a pool of 20 people or so.
I agree we should be betting polar on this flop, but I disagree that QJ would be wide here. Calling ranges from everyone include a ton of draws, no AQ, and any pair. Could you elaborate on your thoughts on why?
Checking back the turn is interesting barring the information on how he plays draws in the spot, but I could get behind betting vs passive player and checking the river if it's not going to get me a 2nd pair call.
Dec. 15, 2018 | 7:08 a.m.
This hand is from a weekly home game that plays around $100-$300 deep within the first few hours. At this point, the people on the table only bought in for $40-$80 except for one reg with $160. The effective stack here is $80 and it's versus a player we mostly consider to be a whale. He bets full range in a lot of scenarios if given the room to be the first aggressor. ie 96ss on AT6cc bet if checked to, or AQ8J3, may bet an 68ss) I don't think he thinks about ranges, but he bets hoping for folds from top pair in spots that won't happen like that. He's been on a hiatus for a few months, losing $100-$300 a week. He's in for $80, on his 2nd $40 bullet having run it to $80.
I'm UTG+1 9 handed and open QJss to $1.50
Two people in MP call and the opponent calls in the small blind.
Flop ($6) Qc8h3h
Opponent checks. I bet $3 (In hindsight, I don't see a reason not to bet $4-$6, as the calling ranges are inelastic, and I'm ahead. Plus all my bluffs here will have lots of equity when called) Two MP players fold and the opponent calls. I believe his calling range to be A3,K3,23,34,35,36,37, 84,85,86,87,89,8T,8J,K8,A8, Q2-QK minus Q8 and Q3, JT, J9, any two hearts that aren't AJ+.
Turn ($12) Qc8h3h3c
Opponent checks. I'm not familiar enough with the opponent to know if he'll checkraise draws here. I know that he'll bluff all his draws, and bet all 3x, on all rivers completing or not. I figured since I didn't know if I could comfortably bet/call the turn, I decided to check back after playing with chips, hoping to make him think I wanted to check the river down by faking intimidation.
River ($12) Qc8h3h3c7d
Opponent leads $7. I call.
Critique of my thought process please. I've played a lot with this villain, but it has been a few months, and I've not seen him checkraise draws before. Because we haven't really played enough hands to know for sure, I opted for bluff catching, intending to fold if hearts came through. Realistically, we've played maybe 1500 hands together tops.
Dec. 14, 2018 | 5:11 a.m.
I prefer betting pot on the flop, as all hands calling 80c will call 1.05. Then I would continue barreling the turn for like 70+% pot. Your opponent will have a lot of Tx, and T9 and JT won't likely muck to a bet, but certainly won't bet the turn for you.
Dec. 9, 2018 | 1:24 a.m.
Sure thing, ChaoRen123 I had a few minutes while waiting to get a haircut and started counting combos. If your player pool won't fold ANY KJ or KT on the turn and then the river, you've got 16 combos of calling hands and then a bet/fold seems like an easier decision.
I wouldnt want to check/call if the pool does that though because I would think they might be weaker and underbluff. What do you think?
Dec. 9, 2018 | 1:19 a.m.
Postflop i dont think this is a dynamic board assuming a limp call range of essentially anything playable. you cant bet twice so opponents with a flush draw will have the correct price to call the flop bet. I think that means as played id rather check flop, bet turn, check river on blank runouts.
Dec. 8, 2018 | 11:01 p.m.
I get wanting to squeeze because its really eaay to have 40% with nearly any playable hand, but this feels like a piss and vinegar instead of blood through the veins kinda thing. Id way prefer checking.
Dec. 8, 2018 | 10:58 p.m.
First thought is sb has equity while bluffing when called preflop. its not a river decision where a bluff has zero equity. So i think that means you dont have to defend 30% necessarily. But i would defend more playable postflop hands if they have a 10% 3b.
Dec. 8, 2018 | 10:56 p.m.
Your opponent is risking 12 to win 27 here, and in practice you should defend 55% so your opponent is indifferent to bluffing.
For what its worth, i dont know if a hand like KJ or QJ with a club will call a third barrel. That leaves you with being against a polarized range since worse wont call you. So you have to decide if youre getting 4 streets vs QJ and KJ, AcTx, AcJx
AcTx and AcJx is 8. QJ and KJ with a club is 5 combos. Sets is 6 combos. Flushes (87cc, 89cc, T9cc, JTcc, QTcc, A2-A5cc, ATcc) is 10 combos. Value to possible bluffs is 15:13. Villain probably doesnt call every ATo or AJo, so maybe more like 15:10. And then it requires villain to want to bluff somewhat small with QJ and KJ. So idk id take some or all of those out. Now were 15:5
We need 7/33 or like 20% and the worst scenario i find is having 25% equity. Seems marginal and i now believe fold to be correct with my river line being a check/call.