Your feedback is great @Eldora. Im definitely looking for resources for SnG on RIO and other places. Do you recall any resources that you thought were good for SnGs back in the day when you played? It may be outdated in your opinion but right now I am just playing the micros so anything that may plug leaks (when playing is cheap) is good. :D
May 18, 2019 | 4:26 a.m.
Thanks for the response @Eldora. What you shared was very informative and still may apply today.
Right now I am playing and learning on ACR which is on the Winning Poker Network. I'm currently playing the $1.50 + 0.12 (0.03 goes to SnG rakerace) 9max turbos. You start with 1500 in chips and the blinds increase every 5 mins. The blind structure is as follows:
* 100/200 25 ante
* 150/300 25 ante
* 200/400 50 ante
* 250/500 50 ante
* 300/600 75 ante (I think 75 ante)
The blinds seem very similar to what you were playing.
It seems that a lot of players that believe their edge comes from the ICM game prefer the faster paced games that get you to that point sooner. Could it be said that the regular paced games (i.e. non-turbos) are softer? Does it make sense to look into these if you believe that you both have an edge postflop so the slower pace allows you the opportunity to play more postflop poker as well as an ICM edge? Obviously the hourly is down but for those not interested in an hourly would it make sense?
May 16, 2019 | 4:50 a.m.
Thanks for the link to the video stream @Eldora. I will try to check it out tonight/tomorrow.
Maybe he addresses it in the video but could you provide any insights into why traffic is shifting to 6-max hypers? Im getting back into the game and have found success at the 9-mans thus far at the micro stakes but maybe would be better off sticking to the 6-max hypers.
Also... Sorry... :( I accidentally fat fingered and flagged your comment while I was scrolling around trying to find my mouse pointer.
May 14, 2019 | 7:59 p.m.
I imagine if you believe you are a good SnG player you believe you have a large edge playing postflop. Sure at a certain point the blinds will put enough pressure on you both players and those that can figure out Nash ranges and then adjust those the best will also have an edge at that point. But as with all poker the money is to be made postflop. I know I certainly am not good enough to tackle the HU SnGs. Would like to develop myself though in the future so that I could play them profitably if I wanted to.
May 13, 2019 | 5:04 a.m.
Is there are reason you are looking at 6 max over the 9 mans? Im to far removed from poker and maybe haven't developed the critical thinking to understand if one is better than the others. Is it you're just familiar with 6 max from the cash games?
May 11, 2019 | 5:23 a.m.
I'm new to SnG. Used to play in the past (~10 years ago) and just getting back into poker as a hobby. Used to play cash games but have found I have really enjoyed SnGs lately.
Any advice on lines here would be appreciated. Tournament poker/SnG are very unfamiliar to me at the moment so any general advice would also be well received. I don't play with a HUD but have these observational notes:
Has a med VPIP PF during the early/medium stages of the SnG (~40%)
PF R % seems to be < 10%
No notes on CO
This is the 3rd hand in a row I have isolated UTG+1
UTG+1 folded flop to CB in past 2 hands
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 15/30 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 46.17 BB
SB: 50.17 BB
BB: 52.67 BB
UTG: 49 BB
UTG+1: 33 BB
MP: 49 BB
Hero (MP+1): 51 BB
MP+2: 39.33 BB
CO: 79.67 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ah Th
fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 3.33 BB, fold, CO calls 3.33 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls 2.33 BB
Flop: (11.5 BB, 3 players) 9s Ts 5d
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets 8.33 BB, CO calls 8.33 BB, UTG+1 calls 8.33 BB
Turn: (36.5 BB, 3 players) Jh
UTG+1 checks, Hero ????
How do you approach this spot? The turn J I thought was interesting as it seems to fit everyones ranges. I feel like we are ahead here still a good amount of the time, but again the J seems to help everyone or improve their equity.
Do we just jam here? It seems like if we bet anything here and get called we are shoving/calling any river given the odds we will have. Checking behind seems like given my opponents a chance to realize their equity for free but it seems like a spot where we might control as well?
Again any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
May 11, 2019 | 12:58 a.m.
Thats a great question. I'm recently getting back in poker after a ~10 year hiatus and I actually have found that the SnG are the softest of all formats I could have played. I first tried 5NL 6max and felt like everyones skill level was way more than it was ~10 years ago and there weren't a lot of soft spots/ability to game select. Maybe that is the result of me only being able to devote like 10 hours to poker a week but it still seemed overwhelming trying to learn poker again and become a winning player (let alone breakeven).
I have never played tournament poker seriously and found that the SnG were fun (the situations I was running into were very different from cash games) and there were plenty of soft spots. Now I play the micros and I am sure moving up stakes will be challenging, but the micro SnG seem more beatable than 5NL 6max at the moment. But maybe I am the fish in any game I play. :D
Could it be that if you are a good player you are most likely to make "good" money play MTTs and cash games? If you look at all the content that is produced it sure seems geared towards that as well.
May 11, 2019 | 12:53 a.m.
Lets definitely talk about this. Im new to PLO and my biggest leaks are postflop but I found that the quickest leaks for me to fix have been preflop.
I wouldn't say that I have a checklist or anything of the sorts for my preflop hand ranges that I decide to play. Instead there are some things I think about before making a decision to play a hand preflop. Maybe that is a checklist? Dunno. But this sounds more fluid to me (in my head at least) allowing me to be more adaptable (I hope). Here are some things that I have thought about.
Originally I was 3b isolating the CO a lot after they opened or the HJ after the opened (as well as to try to secure position). I found that I was doing so with a wider range after watching some vids which is fine in a vacuum. What I wasn't taking into account was the rate at which the blinds as well as the BTN could cold call my 3bets. I just isolated with a wider range thinking that overall the bet looked stronger (even if people knew what I was doing) and they would fold more of their marginal ranges like low rundowns or ones with top or bottom gaps, etc.
While I do find think that those people are definitely exploitable my failure to adjust often put me playing in larger pots with more marginal hands. So I find that if people have a high tendency to cold call 3bs PF behind me then I will isolate less with my marginal hands and chuck them.
Another thing that I had to think about PF was adjusting to people who have a high 4b PF %. I mean like 30%+. They aren't frequent but when they do they are good sources of money if you play them right. Again I was trying to 3b isolate them with a wider range (as was the rest of the table). What ended up happening was that people just played big 4b+ PF pots with this person either HU or MW and were pretty much gambling against them.
I found that I need to tighten up my range drastically. Hands that I would 3b for isolation I will just flat with and even hands that I would typically 3b for value I will flat with. I would only 3b my strongest hands like AA, KK, broadway rundowns, etc. with the intention of getting it in PF against these players. Otherwise I found that we are just pretty much gambling with the people on the flop as we aren't really pushing preflop equity edges.
Feb. 4, 2017 | 7:01 a.m.
Thanks for everyones feedback. It is really appreciated and has helped me better understand these situations.
Again Im extremely new to PLO and am naive and ignorant. A question I do have though is what is SPR? I have picked up that its stack-to-pot ratio and can calculate but am unsure of how to apply it or what I should be thinking about during a hand around SPR?
Can someone point me to a good vid/thread that explains it in more detail and its purpose and how its applied? I did a search but everyone mentions SPR in videos and threads. =P
Thanks again everyone.
Feb. 2, 2017 | 4:51 a.m.
What if we prefer a strategy where we dont push preflop equity edges as much and focus more on pushing postflop equity edges? Things that cause us to call more vs raise. To be "stickier." Small ball/3b smaller PF. And what ever else you can think of that causes us to focus less on pushing preflop edges.
If that is the case won't we be in more spots like this postflop for a single raised pot and in general dumping good hands that we could push a postflop edge? Im not saying that this is the one maybe but it seems we could be in similar situations more frequently.
Jan. 31, 2017 | 4:18 a.m.
I think maybe you misread. There is not 3betting the BTN to get it HU. UTG opened and BTN called. Im SB.
But lets say the BTN did open instead. Do we really want to 3bet this to get it HU? If it is as marginal as we claim it to be we are just building a big pot OOP in the hopes that the BB folds?
To me this hand seems that it plays well enough multiway. Maybe that is a fault or mine and/or it just doesn't do well enough OOP. But if it does do well enough multiway why not just call the preflop bet and go to the flop in a smaller pot OOP vs HU OOP in a larger pot?
Jan. 31, 2017 | 4:10 a.m.
Some stats on the players in question:
UTG: VPIP 29, PFR 14, PF3b 3, Hands 80
BTN: VPIP 67, PFR 31, PF3b 3, Hands 100
No other reads on the players.
So I'm new to PLO and overall a poker amateur. I find myself in situations where I have strong draws w/o the flush and am unsure of if we should be getting them in or not. I realize that this is 2PLO and I don't want to level myself but find that I am playing 200bb deep and getting my money marginally a lot. In general I 3b this hand PF but I elected to call for the aforementioned reasons and don't want to play a big pot OOP and this hand plays find multiway.
Is it pretty standard to get this in on the flop this deep with PF raiser still left to act?
I'm really just worried about the UTG ranges as I feel like we are pretty much against AAxx, AhAxxh, AAxhxh, 99xx, 66xx, 33xx when he comes over the top. His CB into the field would indicate he has something at least as I don't think he is CB'ing this flop in a four way pot without anything.
I do think that 3b on the flop does have some fold equity against the PF raiser. Maybe he folds AAxx and AAxhxh but pretty much everyone has been tabling AA at my table up to 200bb.
As for the BTN I think he could easily be doing this with any set, top two plush flush draw, straight draw plus flush draw, etc.
Sorry if this is a dumb question but in general I'm unsure of how to play hands where I don't have a redraw or some of my straight outs complete flushes.
Jan. 30, 2017 | 5:22 a.m.
Im new to PLO. Have only been playing a month and only a member on RIO for a week so take this advice with a grain of salt but I think Id fold or raise this. I find that Im nitty (which is something Im trying to fix) and would lean toward folding. This hand just isn't that great and I think you will find yourself in a lot of high variance situations if you are trying to get it in against someone with a pair and FD with this type of hand.
If you are so compelled to play this hand I would raise it. The hand plays poorly multiway so I would look to isolate and get it HU. I think this argument is more compelling to isolate and get it HU if the CO is folding to a flop CBet a large % of the time in 3b PF pots. If they are folding ~50% you can bet less than the pot size and pretty much print money.
I dont advise this though. I think you are simply building up a big pot OOP though with a marginal hand which just makes you take the worst of it.
I think that you ought to take your standard hands that you play and look to get it in with those "liter." I think playing more marginal hands and looking to get it is just putting you in a lot of high variance situations.
Jan. 25, 2017 | 4:46 a.m.
I would fold this pre. You're implied odds aren't as good as you think they are. The main reason for my argument is that you're OOP. You actually have reverse implied odds for this matter as you stand to win the min from them and lose the max to them since you always have to act first.
Another thing to consider is the PF ranges for UTG and CO. Even though they are stacking off lite they still need to hit a hand that meets their criteria of stacking off. The wider their PF ranges the less likely they are going to make hands that meet their criteria of stacking off (whether its lite or not). This also reduces your implied odds.
UTG doesn't look like having a strong range with the open limp and you haven't said anything about CO PF R range.