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Post | Paid_To_Laid posted in NLHE: Rake Live Game Questions

Hello, I really don't have any information on rake in live games and it's effects. Does anyone have any good information on live poker rake structure, the hourly, how bad people actually need to be to beat it etc. I'm not talking about a casino either, like I have seen some games where the cap is like $20 in a 5/5 game and i don't see how i could imagine to beat that sort of a game with such a high rake. Any ideas are really greatly appreciated or any sort of links to good info, tried to research it online a bit but can't find any soft of good information.

Sept. 26, 2018 | 4:44 p.m.

"For example, if you're the PFR and the flop is A-K-Q, you should bet with a high frequency regardless of what cards you hold, because you have a range advantage and Villain should be more likely to fold."

You literally never have one hand on AKQ you always have a range of hands. Lets say Villian is defending 'X'% of hands in that spot. Your EV of lets say AJ is totally dependent on the other hands in your range, The EV of lets say 22 and 87 and whatever else, all of your hands in your range will gain or loose EV depending on what your entire range is made up of.

you should bet with a high frequency regardless of what cards you hold

So ultimately it just depends on what a good strategy is based on how the two ranges interact on the board

Sept. 10, 2018 | 5:08 p.m.

I don't think we can really deviate well without having a clear idea of what optimal or a good strategy looks like in these various situations first.

I think getting good fundamentals for frequent situations and understanding what hands are pure strategies and what the mixes are is the first thing and the most relevant before anything else. I mean there are arguments made to just learn the exploits and just try to build a bankroll, and not worry about how to think about poker in an analytical, logical way until you build up a bankroll or whatever those kind of people think, I'm not sure what they think. There is a great book called the art of learning and it talks about chess, and how many people first learn just how to make good openings and they don't really deepen their understand of the game, they just know how to beat certain opposition and certain situtions, but the way they look at chess is just poor. etc. He talks about learning the end game first, and working on the most fundamental principles and mastering them, and then going from there. My first year in poker all I did was just nodelock everything, and I have to tell you the best thing I ever did was get away from that and actually learn good poker strategy, and I'm still studying everyday, and I haven't really come to a point where I think nodelocking is that relevant baring maybe one or two hands a day to take a look at different adjustments etc, but I don't think I'm good enough to just get away from good strategy. going straight to the nodelocking feature without really having good strategies down, at minimum in the frequent situations doesn't feel like a recipe for success

sorry for the rant. I just know I didn't use my time efficiently when I came into poker and I think learning efficiently is just so vital to improving.

Sept. 10, 2018 | 3:02 p.m.

The expected value for betting big, and betting small betting this and betting spme other random size is so so similar.. You really wont gain anything. The idea that weaker players won't push yourself are Equity, that's totally zoom in on one very small part of what could happen in the hand, there are a ton of other small things that effect the way that EV actually is actually created.

Again it doesnt matter on the flop. Only microstakes player focus on situations that litterally dont add EV instead of looking at relevent things which was Samu's point

Aug. 30, 2018 | 8:22 a.m.

Go ahead and blindly use 1/3 or check. I'm not knocking Samu. He's just talking to micro stakes people, Ultimately this is just this 1/3 or check strategy everywhere is a bit of a laugh, if you actually look at the Range vs Range situation in so many spots, your range doesn't want to use just a small bet or check, and that rational 'it doesn't give up much EV' is an excuse to be lazy and not actually put the time in to these situations. It's fine, but to say it's a superior strategy to playing mixed strategies is just ridiculous.

Aug. 28, 2018 | 3:15 p.m.

Aug. 28, 2018 | 2:43 p.m.

Depending on your bankroll, life roll etc, if you can afford it I would highly suggest that you purchase piosolver and learn to study efficiently with that software. In terms of efficiency for studying and whatever else generally speaking training videos are a fairly passive and slow way to improve, certainly if you have a lot of time to watch them and u enjoy them then by all means watch as many as you can, but you will likely get far more out of piosolver or one of these solvers available on the market than looking at videos etc.

Aug. 28, 2018 | 2:38 p.m.

Hello Everyone there have been many many requests via Pm and here, I think one of you should take the group, i ended up just being titled by it all because I have mental disorders where I want to be smarter than everyone, and I'm not so yeah it didn't work out well when someone said I'm not god. Maybe someone else though can make it work. Jawbless

Aug. 28, 2018 | 2:33 p.m.

turn is a pure fold

Aug. 28, 2018 | 2:28 p.m.

it's not this simple, you can't make it this simple. that's not how it works. The BB is getting a discounted price preflop, he's not entitled to much of the pot. IP is overrealizing a ton of equity in these SRP. This thing about sizing and bluffs etc doesn't really have any basis in reality for flops and turns.

Aug. 28, 2018 | 2:18 p.m.

Flop is whatever, mix with big bet is fine, we are using a lot of big bets on flop UTGvBB

Flop is a call vs x/r always. never a fold.

Turn just folding this more often than not

River is a fold if u get here, u just have litterally the nut worst bluff catcher in your range baring one or two other combinations. This is a fold. You have a ton of hands to bluff catch the river. This doesn't make any sense in basically any world they aren't ridiculously overbluffing, even if they are overbluffing, depending on your assumption about their frequency, this ends up just being one of the most inefficient bluff catchers in your range

Aug. 28, 2018 | 2:14 p.m.

Prelfop, 3bet at least a tad larger. Given rake environment of these stakes some would argue larger slightly lower frequency 3bet strategies in the various possitions are a good strategy, it's debatable and there is a lot going on there, but I think 3betting at least 100% pot SBvBTN is likely a good starting point.

"My thinking was I have 2 overs and a backdoor nut flush draw Ill bet. Hoping to take it down then and there."
A lot of flop strategies are fine, this is fine.

"Qc.Yay. Lets barrel again."

Most of the sizing solver uses in this situation are 25-35% in my experience on this specifc turn card once we continue betting etc.

"Oh no. I didn't make anything. Sad memes."
We should look at our minimum value here, and think about what sort of strategies we want to have on the river, I personally would have about 3 sizing on this specific river. This combination is a high frequency river bluff, and we are mixing between the various sizes available on river. This is pretty standard, 2/3 on river is fine, 1/4 on river is fine, pot is fine, all in is fine. I pure betting this combination on the river and mixing sizes between 2/3 and all in.

Aug. 28, 2018 | 2:03 p.m.

James and Krzysztof give very good advise. it's very unlikely what your perception of the game is actually what is going on in reality, as we all experience this playing poker at various points. Play 25k or 50k hands and start to really see how the player pool is playing.

Aug. 28, 2018 | 1:56 p.m.

"Should I be betting here? " --- This is a mix strategy combination.

"They will call and the turn will come and I really don't know whether to bet again or not. He could have QT, he could have a bunch of jacks, including like J3" --This hand class is close to a pure check on the majority of turns espeically not improving your equity, even if your equity improves on various cards depending on the range of the SB u are still checking this particular combination on turn at a high frequency.

"So if I check and he bets the river, am I just folding? This happens to me calling from IP a lot too." ---Likely just mixing on most rivers once we check the turn depending on various factoirs like sizing from OOP, river card, etc.

After reading the rest of the post I don't reply to the rest in this fashion. I will say that you do not have any sort of idea how poker actually works, how money money is being passed around the table. That's a good thing, you're not already conditioned with a lot of stuff that just isn't true, as many people on the poker community have been playing realtivly poor strategies and have false ideas and principles in their minds and have been doing this for years. You're fortunate to be at the beginning of a journey. I suggest you start with very fundementals like learning good strategies in the most basic situtions, it sounds like you should likely come up with a simple preflop strategy, flop strategy and turn strategy. Turn's are a little harder and take longer to study but i wouldn't over complicate it. Fundamentals are key, and they take time, but you must invest in them if you want to move to the next stepping stone. James Hudson also offered very good advise. If you have the money, I would suggest you purchase one of the solvers and start putting in some hours with them, and learning good basic poker fundamental strategy.

Aug. 28, 2018 | 1:49 p.m.

James is giving really good advise, I think it's very wise.

Aug. 28, 2018 | 1:42 p.m.

Comment | Paid_To_Laid commented on Call or fold?

mixing this hand preflop 4bet and fold

Aug. 28, 2018 | 1:36 p.m.

No it's not in Zerodeda's head, it's likely downstairs

Aug. 7, 2018 | 3:01 a.m.

you need help from nick howard
you also probably need therapy because you have some serious problems, wanting to bluff is a neurological disorder because you probably don't have a large frontal...….cortext

Aug. 7, 2018 | 2:55 a.m.

Whenever, I read one of these hands it feels like Tarot card reading. Essentially you don't have very much information on the villain a 24/17/12 100hands could be a pro running cold or a recreation player who plays tight preflop. He could checkraise all top pairs for protection or he could only raise the nuts. He could be angry because he lost the last hand or be playing on his last 50 dollars and be very tight. These contradictory explanations to the same events make understanding this situation very difficult.
When you run across a situation, where your reads breakdown, you should instead analyze your own range and try to make a decision that produces that best possible result against an unknown strategy or a "GTO" solution. The GTO solution in these situations involves understanding the MDFs to make our opponent indifferent to bluffing. Since you bet 2/3 nick howard elite pro cbet range strategy , your range is very wide in this situation. My guess is mixing Q9s plus, as you can see in piosolver

Aug. 7, 2018 | 2:24 a.m.

what stakes do you play and what is your winrate?

Aug. 7, 2018 | 2:01 a.m.

This is the true nick howard strategy for river

Aug. 7, 2018 | 2:01 a.m.

This is poker in 2018, you must cbet your range for 2/3 as Nick Howard always suggests in multi pots on King High boards, once you get to the flop and he raises, you need to defend 1-A-.69/.66(it's a 3 way pot), and that means you are left with a defense range of 66%/2=33%, - the hands you 3bet flop x 2. That means you need to 3bet the flop to deny equity vs villains raising range, there are obviously way more flushdraws in his range than hands like K9, and he cannot have KK because he will 3bet OBVIOUSLY. So he value is reduced. To be clear poker isn't always about trying to get called by worse flushdraws, sometimes you need to just make their flushdraws fold or call, it's not about getting called, it's about playing a correct GTO strategy against an perfectly ballenced raising range. Considering IP is only representing a set, you clearly cannot believe that he just has a set, you are play like a rock, rocks do not make money in 2018. It's very loose agro game.

Even using passive nitty strategy it's part of an MDF

Now I will nodelock the strategy for 2/3 cbet with range, and we see what the true call downs are in reality if you play the correct Nick Howard Elite RIO coach strategy, not this freaking troll whale people 'I cannot beat 10nl but I will tell you to fold AK' come on you always call AK you trolls but lie in the forms, it's MDF don't lie.

This is the proper Nick Howard River Call down after 100% 2/3 cbet strategy in multiway King high boards.
By the way you cannot cbet 1/3 small because they x/r too much, like Nick Howard said if you use 2/3 you realize more equity on later streets by them underdefending and under x/r flop and turn, so this is the best strategy to be clear.

Aug. 7, 2018 | 2 a.m.

AK is not part of MDF when you bet such a tight range on the flop, so in reality not this stupid exploitative shit world of superwhale trolls, you actually need to BET MORE HANDS BIG on the flop, so AK is always part of your MDF, that is what is messing up, you have these superwhales who say they don't have to defend the turn because they only small bet and bet big with 99 and 22, the reality is that you need to widen your range and bet more hands big so you can always make this part of your MDF. This is poker 101 for you Nick Howard lovers.

Aug. 7, 2018 | 1:29 a.m.

I don't these moronic commenters have seen a deck of cards in their life, you have AK on Kxx, you are going to fold the turn? you are way too exploitable??? What trolls, they actually cannot be serious, like you have AA,and AK here, you have other bluffs, you need to call the turn and call a non flush river unblocking draws. YOU HAVE AK on Kxxxx without a flush coming, call, it's totally standard.

Aug. 7, 2018 | 1:23 a.m.

Hello if anyone is familiar with Amazon Web Services, or any other dedicated servers and how to set it up I'm willing to pay for help with this. Please don't be one of these people that claims they know how to do shit or is good at it and then you don't know wtf ur talking about lol.
Thank you much apricated GLGL

July 28, 2018 | 9:49 a.m.

yes certainly call top of your range, never fold a full house on the river for 500bb when you block quads.

May 16, 2018 | 10:09 a.m.

Holly shit, I haven't read a muthafukkin comment but that looks like to think Q4 is good you must be on some seriously good shit. could I get a hit one time? holla

May 16, 2018 | 10:03 a.m.

May 7, 2018 | 1:55 p.m.

Hello, my friend currently is playing in a game with a lot of whales, but also some people who clearly clearly clearly are colluding all over the place, and it seems suboptimal in the spots they are trying to force people off hands where they likely just have some sort of a blocker one of their other accounts or whatever the case is, or where they are doing these weird squeeze plays, and small 6bet/folding and just crazy shit deep stack.
In terms of strategy what are some of the things we can do to fight against this? Fucking scum bags, rationalizing it's ok to steal people's money, greedy mutherfukkers, by cheating. anyways, yeah I mean obviously there is the ideas of 'don't play' but when there are so many whales and it's just clear they are doing it very very suboptimally, I just want to find a good approach for spots they are going to be super exploitable in, I mean I feel that it just changes the whole dynamic a lot hmm.
Any ideas would be appreciated thank you all

May 7, 2018 | 1:52 p.m.

that's one of the toughest 5/10 line ups I've seen in a long time
yeah he just got back last week

May 5, 2018 | 12:16 a.m.

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