SetMineUrAss's avatar

SetMineUrAss

241 points

Spent two and a half hours multitabling six max 10NL: It's a different game with the rake structure as high as it is on the soft networks. I see a daily rake race for one network and other than that - Nothing. No bonus's, incentives, solid promos. This is what really keeps the weaker players from depositing. That said: The games are indeed pretty soft so I can only imagine what ROW players have access to, especially with some of these new Asian apps that some people have found their way to. There has to be people making more than 2k-3k a month (USD) but let's say they make 50k a year - over 4k a month. I think that would require being a legitimate pro by any stretch, in any market, no? Right there, we simply can't work a full time job in addition to this. It's basically poker or something else (as far as a profession). Not saying it isn't being done, just saying that the combination of numerous factors make it unappealing enough to enough people that the games eventually became far less profitable. It's a cycle. Promos, some free money put into play by some of the sites now and then, and mainstream advertising like Global is doing in the US market are all absolutely imperative and why more pressure needs to be put on sites to provide these incentives. Not to mention that not saying anything about bots, collusion, and other nefarious things may seem like it's good for the game - but it's not. It hasn't been. 2p2 is allowing more open complaining and even outright assertions/allegations because they want the sites to feel more pressure than they have in the past.

This is all online. There are people who make some good money in the US playing live in different venues. Always will be. Psychologically, you know certain things aren't going on just by playing live, too. The gap between viability between online and live would need to be closed a bit again.

Nov. 5, 2018 | 6:04 a.m.

This is kind of what the rake is like, proportionately, if you're a US online player today. Right: Only deposit small amounts, play small stakes, or don't play at all. Not until the (which they won't ever) black market that does exist offers us some reason to put in volume on the sites.

Nov. 4, 2018 | 7:05 p.m.

Power Equilab is the best tool for exactly what you seek here. Definitely don't spend money on Poker Ranger. Equilab is the free version of Power Equilab.

Nov. 4, 2018 | 7:03 p.m.

The thing that some of you fail to realize is that for the amount of time, energy, work and at times sheer losing money you go through to succeed at poker eventually - You would already be making far more (and consistent) money by doing almost anything else. Minimum wage is $15/hr in a lot of the US now. Minimum wage. With our economy booming again, and online poker plagued by restrictions and bots/rigging etc - It doesn't make sense to even consider poker as a primary source of income.

It's not about the game being "dead" or unbeatable - It's about so few people playing it today because it makes zero economic sense. Time is money. If I sit down to play for 3 hours, I'd already make a minimum of $45 literally meeting and greeting at Walmart. /shrug. Why would I sit there grinding away at the computer for far less money? I'd far rather actually be "doing something", earning money, and not crunched up at the screen for no reason. So "putting in the work" (we hear this so often) doesn't really mean anything. I can earn a living (meager one) if I "put in the work" collecting and redeeming empty bottles. That doesn't mean it's worth my time. Markets have to be appealing to get individuals involved in them. There's no reason to sit there killing yourself studying and grinding when you can do nothing and earn $15/hr. Again: That's minimum wage. Most of us could earn $60k/year at the average full time job we can get - and there's a LOT of them available today. So, sit there and basically play bingo against bots for at times negative $'s an hour? Why? I can assure you - No Americans love the game that much that they're willing to put life on hold, earn no money, and have a huge employment gap on their resume just to play it. Not in 2018/2019.

I know this all upsets the guys who have made poker the center of their lives, but don't shoot the messenger(s). You see rampant negativity on even 2p2 today (and have for about a year plus now) because these US facing offshore sites are regarded as illegitimate. Nobody trusts them and the common perception is that they're unbeatable due to bots/rigging. That's just a fact. With so many more Americans employed and earning 40k+ a year now compared to 2006 - How on earth could you expect poker to be popular? It's not, nor will it be. Best days are long, long behind us. I know, I know "you just don't want to put in the WORK" - If there was something noble or intelligent about spending countless hours playing this game online, maybe I would "put in the work". Since no matter what my winrate is online, I'll make more money offline at a real job, I'm not going to mindlessly sit there losing money (making less than what I can intentionally is losing money) just to make poker not feel lonely. There's literally NO reason to do so.

The game was popular, and still is fun, when you sit down with bad players and they hand over their money. That's what people find fun about poker. Sitting and studying graphs, charts, math, videos, etc - all to just battle over a couple bb's here and a couple more there against 5 other regs at every table? Definitely one of the most boring and pointless activities you could partake in, period, in today's world. Anyone willing to "put in the work" for $20k a year like that obviously can't get a real job. That's the only reason they would do that.

Poker was popular at one point because it was easy money. This "put in the work" notion is beyond ridiculous and illogical lol. In all honesty - I have to sum up any time I did spend on poker in life as a total waste of time to date. It wasn't more profitable than a real job (ever) and it wasn't really that fun, either. Whatever I learned means nothing since that information is completely useless today. It's not valuable nor is anyone willing to pay for it but these small online niche markets. I know from talking to people offline, that most people in the States have played poker at one point but most haven't in years. As I've mentioned before on here: It's the last thing you'll ever hear mentioned in pop culture today. It's never spoken about, anywhere. So, yeah if I knew it was going to turn out like this a few years back, I definitely never would have spent any time on it. To start the game from scratch today? I really couldn't think of a worse investment of time and money. It takes me everything to gear up to sit down and play and within minutes - I want to go do one of the countless other things competing for my time and attention. Unfortunately for poker, tons of other people feel the same way.

Nov. 4, 2018 | 6:27 p.m.

This could very well turn into the most up to date micros guide online if the series becomes expansive enough.

Oct. 1, 2018 | 12:29 p.m.

Comment | SetMineUrAss commented on J9s vs LRR

Probably just fold pre. Not sure why you tried to turn this hand into something.

Oct. 1, 2018 | 12:19 p.m.

Oct. 1, 2018 | 12:17 p.m.

Would absolutely love to see Adam Jones put some content in on here. It's the only thing that RCP has on RIO, IMO.

Sept. 30, 2018 | 9:12 p.m.

You have far more options as far as casinos, tables, etc. There are numerous locations you could live in and put in professional volume. I would think you would make much more money here and be able to also avoid terribly long winters, etc.

Sept. 30, 2018 | 8:36 p.m.

Might as well just move to the States for this.

Sept. 29, 2018 | 5:24 p.m.

And we know you appreciate predictability after reading your thread about presession routines. Every piece of fuzz in the house, every feline emotion, every vegetarian nut and leaf - everything has to be lined up 100% perfectly in order for you to begin playing your "session" :)))

Sept. 13, 2018 | 12:38 p.m.

Growing up playing 4 sports, pregame routines were like oxygen to me. That said, I have legitimately found myself as an outlier over time in that my best performances in anything competitive were when I did not plan out a routine and just "showed up", so to speak. I am an overly heady person and have learned to compensate for such to a large degree. Prepare and train harder than the competition, focus and visualize the night before, and then just show up on game day.

As for food: I don't eat much when I'm busy with anything. The metabolic crash just isn't worth it and if I'm legitimately busy - I'll just never stop and take time out to eat.

Sept. 13, 2018 | 12:35 p.m.

GTO+ has added some features during this time like the ability to denote different betting strategies from IP and OOP. CREV and GTO+ content would still be greatly appreciated as myself, and I'm sure many others, are most definitely not using these two pieces of software to their fullest potential. GTO+ makes more sense to me than CREV but apparently there is still a lot of value in using CREV's tools as many pros continue to use it heavily.

Sept. 13, 2018 | 12:29 p.m.

Considering that the bulk of this content is from 9max, how directly would you say it correlates with 6max strats?

Sept. 13, 2018 | 12:20 p.m.

Comment | SetMineUrAss commented on I lack courage

I don't know if it's a matter of "courage" but instead a matter of a limited bankroll. How many BI's deep are you on Ignition? At 10NL, there's a lot of bluffing by guys who have larger br's. This is common online in general, today. You either need to tighten up your ranges overall or loosen up and accept more variance/have to make wider calls. With those sizings you used, you're going to get floated a lot and then when you check OOP on river, you give villain the chance to put you in a terrible spot with a capped range.

In this spot, I think villain is way too value heavy to be calling this. You want to plan hands out when the flop comes down. Use a sizing that either prices villain out of potential draws, or keep the pot smaller and understand how the next card effects his range. You don't want to just double barrel 66% pot (for example) and then figure out where you're at when you get x/r'd on the turn. You need to be actively removing combos from V's range along each round of betting. With players like this who call down liberally and like to float, you're going to have to bet more than 50-60% pot. You would ideally like to create a situation (on this flop) where you get stacks in MW, or create an SPR on the turn that allows you to just shove on any card. As said, once you use smaller sizings, you're capping your range and on wet boards, you're going to get into a lot of tough spots like this.

Sept. 12, 2018 | 9:04 p.m.

Reviewing this again today: What would you do with those ranges in an NL10 or NL25, high rake environment? How much would you tighten up the 3b and calling ranges?

Thanks again.

Sept. 12, 2018 | 5:08 p.m.

Very helpful video for me right now. I'm playing in games that frequently feature OR's followed by a string of callers and especially an OR, we 3b, and get multiple callers. I was indeed applying a linear range to these situations (as well as a larger sizing from EP) but seeing all 3 types of 3b ranges laid out in detail like this was great. Thanks.

Sept. 12, 2018 | 3:13 a.m.

I just started playing on Global (US/Canada only) but basically, this is my first dive into the truly soft networks/apps that aren't connected to a sportsbook and yeah - it's incredibly soft compared to what I'm used to. Combining these weaker sites with a rec site like BetOnline when it offers a reload bonus is probably the fastest way for a US player to build a bankroll in the micros right now. If you're ROW - Someone could answer this much better than I can. I know there are some Asian apps that people are gaining access to which are also incredibly soft. There's also no harm in playing on harder networks to work on your game and then flipping back to the softer ones to continue building your roll.

Sept. 12, 2018 | 2:54 a.m.

And all you do is troll old threads. Get an existence lol.

Sept. 12, 2018 | 2:12 a.m.

https://play.globalpoker.com/poker-client/poker/10/hand/5b96cfffaa4b05166a127d21

This is definitely one of the better lines I've taken lately. GTO+, this site, and volume is coming together. I played for 61 minutes, mainly cold calling in late position and folding, not having many opportunities to OR or play back postflop. The table was loose/aggressive so I continued to wait for a big hand and then flopped top set (888) vs an UTG OR with bb having called, as well.

What do you put villain on? The flop doesn't hit his range at all and I have to think that AQ is the likely holding here. He would definitely call bb's flop bet with those two overcards and then his turn bet would definitely indicate TPTK. The x/r by me should alert him to a set but it's certainly reasonable for him to call there. On the river, my shove could easily look like a busted flush to villain but I would think 88, 22, and 44 would look pretty obvious by now. When he calls the shove on that board, I have to again think this is AQ that just refused to fold.

I'm trying to advance my thought process through hands and not just on pots that I lost or played poorly. I think it's good for me to analyze spots like this, too so I can better identify opportunities to target weaker ranges that get sticky postflop.

Sept. 11, 2018 | 12:31 p.m.

You want to try and get out of 2/5NL as soon as possible. I noticed the OP say he has 100k hands at 5NL and although this it's good to put in volume, it's better to take aggressive shots at the next stake when progressing through the micros. As others have suggested to me at times, if the player pool is of a nature that's making progressing past 5NL difficult to any extent, find another network for a while. There are networks that don't even offer anything below 10NL now and they can be extremely soft as a result. Typically, these are higher rake environments but it won't hurt a grinder at these stakes and may actually help him. The fish play too wide, call down too loose, and play too many pots. Over a session, they start to notice they're losing and they leave themselves open to chasing and overextending. If you pick your spots on these networks, you can quickly accumulate BI's at these stakes.

Sept. 11, 2018 | 12:19 p.m.

The pricetag of PIOSolver is always the #1 reason not to buy it. Considering the OP is going to be playing microstakes, PIO would be a huge waste of buy ins. I really don't understand why some of you actually seem to enjoy being gouged for outrageous amounts of money. There is absolutely no justification for PIO's pricetag, especially considering that there are competing products on the market that cost a fraction of what it does.

Sept. 11, 2018 | 11:18 a.m.

Post | SetMineUrAss posted in NLHE: 10NL vs whale: A few hands

Shortly after I sit down, I get into this hand v villain: https://play.globalpoker.com/poker-client/poker/10/hand/5b9664a8aa4b05166a117c39

Standard stackoff, obviously. A few hands later, this comes up: https://play.globalpoker.com/poker-client/poker/10/hand/5b966506aa4b05166a117c3a

I'm betting flop and turn for value but when the turn is x/r to the sizing, I have to think that this is a fold with QJo. Villain has KJ, AJ, JJ, 55, 77, 57, etc in his range and it's hard to imagine that they're doing this with less than JT. Considering the sizing, we'd be playing for stacks and I thought that would be getting a bit out of line here. Thoughts?

Last hand, same villain: https://play.globalpoker.com/poker-client/poker/10/hand/5b966625aa4b05166a117c3f

Here, when the pot size is so small on the river and v donks that large, I thought the most +ev play would be to simply call and close the action, almost definitely ahead of villain. If I was to try and generate more value and raise, this gives villain a chance to shove and put me in a difficult spot where I have the 3rd nuts but v could very easily have Kxs and Axs in their range. Additional thoughts?

Of course I want to maximize value but I also don't want to unnecessarily risk chips against the same person I just won chips from. Villain is a whale and did just call down, call down, call down but their donk bluffs vs other players were usually around pot size and I just thought these two hands were, as said, potentially extremely risky if played otherwise.

Thanks

Sept. 10, 2018 | 12:45 p.m.

You're pretty spot on here, James. This is why I would say that Power Equilab, CREV, and GTO+ would be the best place for the OP to start. Flopzilla is just redundant although again - it does help tremendously with equity estimation and range analysis, especially when dealing with combos being intuitively estimated during hands. Is that alone enough to justify it's purchase in my mind? Probably not. Not with the more advanced tools we're talking about here out on the market now.

Sept. 8, 2018 | 4:11 p.m.

1) PT4 is great and you'll love it for both the HUD and off the table analysis.
2) I don't know what you should do about a solver as a mac user. I use GTO+ because right - Why pay $200 just to get your feet wet with PIO?
3) Flopzilla + HoldEQ (it's accompanying equity calc for multiple hands in the pot) is extremely affordable, easy to use, and very visual. It's especially useful if you enjoy visual learning so you can intuitively make better decisions at the tables. Equilab is free, a great tool, and does most of what Flopzilla does. Power Equilab is available for as low as ~$5 USD/month and is, overall, the best equity calc you can use. Any of these would suit you just fine for starting out in the micros.

Do not purchase Flop Falcon. The fact is that the project itself was a flop, has no ongoing support today, and is a total waste of money/time.

Sept. 8, 2018 | 2:51 p.m.

So, I've been playing on this soft rec network and winning but also being able to play loose and see showdown in a lot of spots I never have before. I'm learning a lot about ranges and hand reading. The thing is that there are multiple loose limpers or min raisers with multiple callers after them in these 4NL games. I'm going to take some hands @ 10NL as the higher blinds + less impact from rake should probably make them more profitable as they're just as loose. In these situations, though - Am I playing correct in planning the hand out based on what I think the action behind me will be and ultimately what kind of hand I'll be looking at in a large MW pot post flop? So, 78s from CO w/ 2 limpers - Call, wait for the small raise with subsequent multiple callers, and then call IP or with only the BTN having position on me? The pot odds pre and then situation post would basically be the same as calling an original 2b with a call around or 3b and calling IP, no? In these same spots - Do hands like AQo and AJo want to go into the trashbin from EP considering that almost regardless of how large you raise the limpers there are going to be multiple hands postflop?

Thanks

Sept. 8, 2018 | 2:49 a.m.

bnoise Thank you so much for taking the time to elaborate on this to that extent. I read your post yesterday, put in a quick session, and then was away from the tables last night.

I deposited on Global and was playing $4NL but I'm going to either run that up and move up or simply just deposit some more to play $20NL. I've never played live and I've only played on US facing sites from 2013-2018. Global is so much softer than anything I've experienced before lol. I also bought BTC, and am waiting to deposit on BetOnline again (as I have been waiting) when they issue their next reload bonus. This will all combine to give me the best table selection options I've had in front of me yet.

This discussion, and a few others, have sharpened me up and begun plugging my main leak which was definitely 3b/4b pre and post. 66-99, 9Ts, JTs, A5s, etc - calling more with these and also opening from EP with hands that have more pf playability so that I can call a 3b and then proceed with an appropriate line pf. I can also clearly open up all of my ranges on the softer networks and this will also help improve my play and build confidence.

Sept. 6, 2018 | 2:22 p.m.

What kind of a bluff:value ratio are we looking at by villain (both IP and OOP) in pf 3b pots after the flop comes down?

Sept. 5, 2018 | 5:23 p.m.

bnoise Right - So a 70% call pf 3b is just about about right. Of course, the question would be what of that 30% of the original OR are we 4b'ing with and what % are we calling 3b's with, and how are those combos distributed.

Sept. 5, 2018 | 3:51 p.m.

The added value of 4b/5b'ing wider is also that you simply get paid more on your big hands, as well. It sets up spots like this, where AKo becomes an insta stackoff for some villains:

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (BB): $5.07
UTG: $9.94 (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
MP: $2.71 (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
CO: $7.54 (VPIP: 53.33, PFR: 26.67, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 16)
BTN: $6.14 (VPIP: 21.90, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 3.92, Hands: 106)
SB: $5.06 (VPIP: 5.88, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Kd Kc
fold, fold, CO raises to $0.14, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.48, CO raises to $1.21, Hero raises to $5.07 and is all-in, CO calls $3.86

Flop : ($10.16, 2 players) 5c 5h 7d

Turn : ($10.16, 2 players) 4d

River : ($10.16, 2 players) 5s

Hero shows Kd Kc (Full House, Fives full of Kings)
(Pre 70%, Flop 87%, Turn 93%)

CO shows Ks Ac (Three of a Kind, Fives)
(Pre 30%, Flop 13%, Turn 7%)

Hero wins $9.66
Rake paid $0.34
$0.16 was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

Sept. 5, 2018 | 3:29 p.m.

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