Does 7% 3b really qualify for being aggressive? Seems weird to me.
Furthermore, CO 3bet sizing looks more like he s wanting a call. Does that translate to value?
Jan. 31, 2018 | 1:06 p.m.
Thanks for your input. I think you are right, it is surely an ICM fold. But its funny because on 2+2, people were saying that it isnt actually a Crystal clear fold. Seems like 1010 is slightly -EV and JJ would be right on the border.
Btn is left with 0.1 ante AFTER the sb, bb and antes are taken so he wont be forced to reveal his hand during that 1010 vs CL shove action but he ll be forced all in the very next hand, which imo adds to the fact that i should not have called CL shove.
Does Nash equi consider ICM in that spot? Seems weird to me because it doesnt fit the numbers people on 2+2 were talking about.
But anyway thanks a lot for your thoughts and input.
Jan. 24, 2018 | 8:46 a.m.
Winamax 50 euros turbos 8max 170 players
1st: 1800 euros +150 euros tickets
2nd: 1200 euros
3rd: 900 euros
4th: 750 euros
5th: 560 euros
BB: 15/30k ante 4k
After sb/bb and antes are taken, stacks are as follow:
UTG (vilain): 20bb
CO (hero): 9bb
BTN: 0.1bb (!!!!)
UTG (vilain) CL is very aggro and seems to understand ICM pressure etc..
UTG snapp shoves. Hero is CO with 1010. I paused for a sec knowing that getting busto on that hand having a 0.1bb left oppo and us being 3rd would be a total ICM disaster.
I paused and thought that even if he s shoving 22+ and J10+, vs hands like QJ i am only flipping and my hand could be vulnerable.
I thought abt ICM folding but told myself i was going for the win . We were crushing his preflop shoving range and were in a sick +EV spot to ship the whole thing.
I might not have given it enough thoughts tho.
because even now i m not sure about what i should have considered the most before making any decision.
The fact that there s one player with 0.1bb left and one with 5bb left which translates to an almost certain 210 euros ladder gain and a potential total of 340 ladder?
The fact that my hand is crushing utg CL shoving range and that it is simply too strong to fold even in that Fckd up ICM situation because i am in such a great spot to take over the CL and to ship the whole enchilada?
Jan. 22, 2018 | 1:22 p.m.
Reading some RIO MTT threads could be a good idea as there are many MTT spots talked abt in that section. Get back to the basics with humility and dont try to be cute. If you feel your NLHE Mtt is pretty rusty, just go for the ABC strat. Playing really solid and GTO. Cant go wrong.
GLGL and ship it!
Jan. 22, 2018 | 1:21 p.m.
May i ask you what is the name of the tool you used to end up with those precise numbers?
As you said yourself, the vast majority of the field in a 20 euros turbo on a french site wont play nash equi. lol
Thanks for your insight tho
Jan. 17, 2018 | 8:22 a.m.
As felipe said, your play seems fine but what bother me is his big sizing, not sure if it screams value or not. He could have an 8x hand but facing a utg cbet on that flop, not sure how often he would almost 4x your cbet and then continue big on the turn with a total value hand...
Not sure abt his range here.
Jan. 15, 2018 | 4:15 p.m.
Winamax series turbo 20euros 8max 3000 runners 200 left 20k starting stack
12.5/25k bb ante 3k
Hero HJ with 275k K8dd
CO tight passif 11bb
btn very tight 8bb
sb no info 14bb
bb tight passif 25bb
action folds to hero in HJ -> hero snapp shove K8dd
I guess K8dd is an ok shove pre in that situation but wasnt sure
As i ve been running pretty bad recently, just after shoving i told myself that i should avoid close decision
IMHO, K8dd is very close
Afterwards, I think that i could easily fold to preserve my stack because staying alive in the tournament is much more valuable than getting a shove through even if that shove here equals to 3000x8 + 12.5k +25k = 61.5k stack increase which is a 25% chip increase
I know that i ve an edge over the vast majority of the field in the 8-15bb spots.
Should i ve fold that hand to get a better spot or was that ok?
Very keen on having thoughts about that
Jan. 15, 2018 | 3:44 p.m.
First of all, oop you should raise bigger than that. 12k min seems the way to go here.
Then I think we could go either way in such a spot. There is merit in checking. You control the pot size and you hide the value of your hand letting your opponent a chance to value bet a weaker holding and a chance to (semi-)bluff. By checking you dont let your self in a weird situation where you get raised on that T turn. J10s Q10s A10s are part of his preflop calling range ip as well as 66's but most of the time, you are still ahead on that T turn.
Betting has some merit too because you make the Flush and straight draws pay for the river. He might even have floated flop with a gs like AJ or AQ.
If he's very sticky and wont fold anything, you might want to check for the reason mentionned above, if you want to protect your hand from the draws on such a wet board just bet at least half pot.
Personnaly, i would check turn and reconsider river depending on his action.
Dec. 18, 2017 | 10:29 a.m.
Even with ICM consideration, i think it is still a call. http://www.icmpoker.com/icmcalculator/
Have a look
Not quite on the direct bubble because you are 8 players left with 5 only getting paid and with a strong chance to double up to 2nd place in chips.
On the direct bubble, with a lot of shorties, one could argue againts a fist pumped call but in your case, I still think it is a call.
Dec. 4, 2017 | 12:26 p.m.
Besides sets and straights, those are the hands we could be facing and willing to get it in against: 77, 109s, 98s, A8, etc... But sitting on +20bbs eff. with a flush draw OTF and our hand being that vulnerable, we rather try to get all the chips in OTF because a lot of turns will kill our action. So we have to charge the maximum amount to anyone willing to continue, in that regard, imho, i think that betting small in that precise case is an error.
Nov. 21, 2017 | 9:14 a.m.
Even if this comes from a competitor site, it is a good basic knowledge.
And, to give a try to answering your prerogative:
If V is opening a standard amount on the button regarding the precise situation, we could easily assume that he will be opening at least 50% of hands which translate to: 22+, A2s+,K2s+;Q2s+,J2s+,105s+,96s+,86s+,75s+,A2o+,K5o+,Q7o+,J8o+,108o+
So, in a vacuum, facing such a wide opening range (50% otb), your 3bet jam is obsly +EV as long as V can only call with a 15% range.
It then dépends on factors like, your ABI, table dynamics and stacks sizes, the importance of laddering one or two stops regarding your BR etc etc
Nov. 21, 2017 | 8:47 a.m.
Got u, thanx Barracuda!
Oct. 25, 2017 | 1:27 p.m.
Yes, got it pretty wrong, it was indeed a 3bet and not a 4bet as long a lojack was rfi. So, to make sure, 5x'ing the 24k raise to 120k OOP on 4/8k blinds is a normal sizing to you? I thought it was actually on the bigger size. How come 5x'ing is a standard sizing?
Oct. 25, 2017 | 1:26 p.m.
20€ bi, 500p, 8hnd, 50k starting stack
Hero: 300k on 4/8k blinds close to the bubble
weak random short player flats bb utg
LoJack: very tight passif (10/9 and 7%3b) player makes it 24k
Hero: AKss in the high jack and just flats 24k
Vilain: table CL in sb (580k) 4bet to 120k (not enough hands played against but does not seem too spewy)
Lojack intial 3bettor folds (?!, must be folding KQss, AJss, AQo, and 77 to 1010?!)
I tank max and 5bet jam AKss
Vilain snapps with AA aaaaaaaaaand... we out :(
My opinion, I thought that having hidden the real stregnth of my hand, I m more enclined to 5bet jam facing a big size 4bet. which could be a squeeze.
But now I think that this might have been a punt because:
1st: the initial 3bettor OOP is very tight passif so the 4bettor should know that the range he will be facing has to be pretty nutted
2nd: because the 3bettor was so range nutted, i first decided to go to the streets and to see a flop IP vs him
3rd: we are pretty close to the bubble and there's no need to play a high variance strategy
4th: when vilain 4bets that big OOP(120k over a 24k 3bet sitting on 580k), he s totally polarized: air or QQ+ but at the same time, I block AA, KK and Ak and i even thought that he might in fact have the same hand (AK)
So in conclusion, should I ve folded or should i ve flatted, regarding pot odds and being IP with AKss (drawing dead only to AA which we do block)?
Was my 5bet jam a total useless and suicidal punt?
Oct. 25, 2017 | 10:53 a.m.
Really appreciate your answer that is valuable to me.
Regarding your assertion: "flatting and jamming most flops is probably still quite high-variance", what do you mean precisely?
How come flatting and 3b jamming facing a very probable cbet on any low flop would be also high variance?
Furthermore, and if I got it right, it was one of those spots where the money had to go in the middle?!
So you do not think that there was a way to escape getting rekt and busto from that tourney?
I mean, folding 1010 is way too exploitable to be a play right?
Oct. 25, 2017 | 10:29 a.m.
Hi everyone, SwissOdds here!
First ever thread posted on RIO
Cant wait to get the community 's feedback
Swiss (from the French speaking part of Switzerland) online mtt player willing to progress and really keen on sharing views (basically all by myself here in my small town regarding strategy, hands debriefing and global analysis).
Working full time in an office aswell as following a professionnal formation which includes analytic accounting courses on saturdays and juggling with my passion for skateboarding aswell as for Nature and poker but lets get into it.
Dont have access to HH (at work atm) so i ll present it as it stands in my tortured mind
Strictly playing on winamax (a very nice fishtank)
Normally playing the 5 to 20€ mtt (2.5k BR) but gave a sunday shot to that 50€ KO
4 left FT 50€ KO 6-max 1100plrs on Winamax
Cant remember the PO structure but smthing like:
1st: 5k+ bnties
2nd: 3.5k + bnties
3rd: 2.4k + bnties
4th: 1.8k +bnties
I ve the lowest bounty (700 ish)
Less than 50 hands played vs the 3 remaining players so HEM2 wasnt really helpfull regarding their tendencies and I was so hyped and focused that i even forgot to shrkscpd them (1st mistake?!) but by the look of things no one looked super sharky strong
The CL was sitting out (for more than 5 minutes/ might have fallen asleep during break lol)
150/300k 30k ante
(Hero just doubled up to 20ish bb and is in sb with 1010)
Vilain (40bb) is UTG and min raise
Hero in sb flats pre with 1010
BB: (not quite sure if he s still the CL atm) healthy stack on the bb though and sitting out -> auto folds
Flop: 9d8d2h -> hero checks -> vilain cbet 2/3rd ish pot -> hero 3b jams -> vilain snapps with QQ
Turn: 6x (come on 1 time please)
River. 2x (aaaarf) :(
Busto in 4th good for +2.5k€ total
Being still the shortest stack but having a sitting out player on the bb, i was not sure abt how to deal idealy with ICM in that precise spot.
I know that vilain was pretty active and that i was crushing his min raising pre range with that player sitting out in the bb.
However i thought that 3b jamming almost 20biggs pre was an ICM disaster if i happend to be facing JJ+ or even if i was flipping so i thought that playing low variance was the play here.
I also thought that my hand would be totally hidden on most flops and that i could therefore easily 3bet jam any favorable flop facing a cbet (in that ICM pressure spot, he would probably cbet close to 100%).A lot of turns could kill my action and i was sitting on a 17ish bb atm so to protect my hand, i didnt even contemplate a flop flat.
-Was my reasoning regarding the sitting out player and ICM totally off?
-Is flatting on the sb with that strong of a hand in a 4hd game, sitting on 19bb a total no-no?
-Was 3bet jamming any favorable flop a total punt?
-Is flatting the flop cbet an option?
-How should i ve dealt with the sitting out player?
-Was my global approach an affraidish-nitty-fishy one?
-Did I miss anything?
Anyway, thank you guys (and girls?!) in advance and a BIG THANK YOU to our Leader, Mr OMG himself who i sadly watched getting unfortunately rekt on PAD latetly :( but cant wait to see him bounce back on the live felt.
No bs, since i subscribed to RIO, i totally inverted my graph. Had a 21k profit over 10k ish games and went from a 10k downswing (since basically the start of my new job) to a 14k upswing!
Oct. 20, 2017 | 3:22 p.m.
Does that mean that we should bet a "smaller amount" when we have more value bets than bluffs or does that mean that we should bet "at a smaller frequency" when we have more value bets than bluffs? Arent we losing some EV by following that reasoning?
Oct. 17, 2017 | 2:10 p.m.
I ll try to give my thoughts strictly on the first hand.
Even if there s no immediate payjump, in that precise spot, I think that you should still consider ICM as big part of your decision.
Because vilain and yourself are respectively 43bb and 35bb deep facing two other players with less than 15bb, and being on the FT bubble, busting right now would be a total disaster.
In that regard, putting yourself in a spot where you are basically praying for not getting snapped by 99+ (or AK against which you d be flipping) is not ideal and easily avoidable.
Sure, 88 crushes the CL btn open ranges (in a vacuum) and sure, regardless of btn tendencies, 3b shoving could be a +EV play here but lets take a deeper look.
Priorities are the key right here. So what are your priorities regarding your options?
-folding 88 in bb facin btn min open -> nope
-3betting small-> why not but what will you do if vilain 4bets?
-3bet jamming 35bb -> thats a very big 3bet jam: you ll get looked up by hands that have you crushed (99+) or that have you flipping (AQss, AKo...) in a spot where there s no need and no place for that kind of variance.
-flatting -> yeah, sure, that play is exploitable on the long run but at those stakes, in that precise spot, you dont really need to be so balanced that flatting would become a no-no.
Coming back to the "priorities" regarding that precise spot, your priority is being able to capitalise on the fact that there's 2 <15bb stacks when you are playing 35bb.
Your priority is not to play high variance against the CL, risking to bust on the FT bubble. On the contrary, your priority is to reduce that variance to the max.
IMO and in conculsion, flatting and reconsidering postflop is the play here.
Oct. 17, 2017 | 12:16 p.m.
Full ring, being the shortest stack, ICM isnt very important here because of the small payjumps between 9th, 8th and 7th, you are beating the btn shoving range and most certainly ahead of sb rejamming, therefore and eventhough there are situations where this AKss could be a fold, in that precise spot, you can not let it go and have to go with it
Oct. 17, 2017 | 8:59 a.m.
I do like your line but regarding your strategy, I dont get why you bet that small OTR.
I understood your strategy and the fact that you dont want to push out of the hand Villain who might even fold an overpair facing too big of a value bet OTR but as long as he s certainly not 3bet jamming anything less than a boat, which would implicate an easy fold for you, imho, you could go for a bigger sizing than 25% of the pot. What about a bet between 9 and 11k. I would even consider trying to go a bit bigger. What do you think?