Girts Sprancis's avatar

Girts Sprancis

3 points

I agree with the x/c ott and re-evaluate for two main reasons.

1) with 3bet >8 this is a board that hits villain pretty hard and him having a straight is pretty likely (his micro bet otf not meaning much at all)

2) even against dry QT ott we have ~30% equity and we are not very likely going to be bluffed otr on this kind of board. Most villains will go for showdown with mediocre SD value hands. Of course there might be an occasional 3-barrel in there, but then again, there will be occasional nuts for us on the river to make that "hero" call ;)

Feb. 7, 2013 | 5:41 p.m.

I would add that you might should notice very big differences in hand strength in HU pots vs multi-way pots. That combined with basic stack to pot ratio concepts can often help to steer towards the right decision in those close spots.

Feb. 7, 2013 | 5:19 p.m.

I would guess main goals of turn bet is 1) to avoid our own mistakes later on, and 2) to fold out some mediocre hands with, which will not likely bluff but still have decent amount of equity (25-30%), e.g. QT98 w/ clubs and maybe backdoor diamonds otf.

Feb. 7, 2013 | 4:24 p.m.

If it is likely to go in preflop, I agree completely with this. You certainly need fold equity either PF or at least on the flop. In this hand BB will very very rarely 5bet allin, and might fold similar hand to our's on the flop and then our flip with the SB becomes extremely good. (we even get an immediate discount from the side-pot)

Jan. 22, 2013 | 10:53 p.m.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind seeing flop in position at all. And Aleksandra has a point, but just from my personal experience those loose OOP callers will fold often enough when the preflop bet becomes biggish. Thats at the low stakes.

Jan. 22, 2013 | 10:44 p.m.

IF you want to build aggro image and don't mind the variance, this spot is decent to iso 4bet the BB out of the hand and have a potential 40-45/55-60 vs the SB with dead money.

Jan. 22, 2013 | 9:14 a.m.

Bet/fold at SPR 1.5 is really not an option, because most people will put it in lighter in these low SPR scenarios, if not based on theory then on pure instinct. And the lighter part of the range can include some pair+gutter (79TJ), overpair or overpairs (8899, 7799), maybe gutter+backdoor flush draws (89TJds), and maybe even some weird stuff like AK67ds given his loose PF tendencies. That should be plenty for you to have necessary ~30% equity.

If you do feel like the board hit villain's range too hard and it is not worth to put any more money in unimproved, then checking is certainly better.

Jan. 22, 2013 | 9:08 a.m.

For your first question you can maybe start with checking out this post:
http://www.runitonce.com/plo/openraising-betsizing-methods/

As for the hand, I would probably cbet a bit smaller because it's a straight board and you do hold the nut flush draw yourself and have very good equity against villain's calling range. Once you get raised on this type of board in PLO10 it is done by JTxx majority of the time, unless it is some real crazy monkey. Most villains will only call 2pairs, sets and even non-nut straights, so your choice is really between call or fold. You are somewhat deep, so there is some merit to calling the flop, but you will have to fold to a pot sized bet on turn unimproved tho, and given the raise on the flop turn bet is very likely coming on blank turns. By the same token, you should probably bet yourself, if the flush completes. It's kinda obvious what you have, but that's the best chance to get paid.

Jan. 22, 2013 | 8:45 a.m.

As a general rule I try to size the cbets (both raised and 3bet pots) based purely on the texture of the flop: 1/2 pot on the dry ones, 2/3 pot on semi-wet and 3/4 on wet ones; and check 3bets pots oop with very polarized range, which is probably not very good. That's for the SPR of >1.8 or so, below that I just pot it.

Jan. 22, 2013 | 8:03 a.m.

Well, if you want to know the equity for your actual hands, you should use the exact side-cards and suits of the hands. Based on your info, that he had no other draws whatsoever and that you do not mention your 4th card, here is a likely match-up http://propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=QcJc2d&g=oh&h1=8c9cTs3d&h2=QdJs7s6s&s=generic. As you can see, its a little less 65% equity for you. And it even goes down more if you maybe missed backdoor flush draw for him, and if he happens to have backdoor straight draw, then it's nearing 60/40 already, which is significantly different from "at least 70".

But mainly I would stress, that you should really look at a range of hands he can have and the corresponding actions, not just the actual hand.

Jan. 22, 2013 | 7:46 a.m.

Just to put some numbers on the thoughts of 4betting PF. Against top 26% and assumed top 35% of hands (excluding AAxx) you only have 32% (http://propokertools.com/simulations/show?g=oh&h1=QsQh4d5c&h2=26%25&h3=35%25%21AA&s=generic). And while BTN only has 40 hands of stats, it is actually more likely that he had been on somewhat of a heater these 40 hands and real stats are bit lower, than the other way around. And that works against us. Add the fact we are 200bb deep and 4bet is very bad. As said.

Jan. 20, 2013 | 12:07 a.m.

On dryish flop like this with SPR 3 villain would likely cbet/call all of his overpair and Qxxx hands, so we should weight his range towards hands that he didn't want to cbet/fold, most likely hands with Q as pivot card or rundowns +gutter (KJT9, 89TJ, AKJT, etc), so turn/river should give him 2nd pair at best as SD value. That said, villain's bluff seems unlikely anyway, since he doesn't really represent anything, so I agree with river bet. I would like a 1/2 pot bet better myself tho.

Jan. 19, 2013 | 5:03 p.m.

I'll start from the last one:
- PF seems good, specially with the smaller raise and thus the smaller 3bet.
- Flop. I would prefer checking back, because you still have medium FD in your range when you do that and villain seems likely to either XR or fold and not very likely to call; which makes sense, because he actually put himself in a little awkward position regarding stack sizes, and cbet/call would still leave more than a pot-sized bet on the turn; and also because flop is actually pretty dry;
- Turn. Yes, I would agree that he is very unlikely to have FD in his range, unless he actually flopped some kind of uber monster with set+NFD and went for the slowplay.

Jan. 19, 2013 | 4:43 p.m.

Your notion "I figure I am 70% in this hand" makes me think you have not checked out some of the equity match-ups that turn out rather surprising. While your hand looks very nice, it is actually not as strong as you might think. Even something as bad as KKxx with no FD has 35% equity against you (http://propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=QcJc2d&g=oh&h1=8c9cTs3d&h2=KK%2A%2A%21cc&s=generic).

As soon as you give villain a better FD, then he has at least 50% even with no pair no straight draw on the flop, for example http://propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=QcJc2d&g=oh&h1=8c9cTs3d&h2=Ac6c5h7d&s=generic. And it is actually not that hard for you to be completely dominated due to the non-nutty components of your draws (http://propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=QcJc2d&g=oh&h1=8c9cTs3d&h2=KcQdTc9h&s=generic).

So your play is mainly good for folding out those villain's hands, that have ~30-35% equity, but cannot stand a check raise, but you are never thrilled to actually get it in on the flop.

And as Nikolaj Borge already stated, it seems reasonable for villain to assume you XR the flop with a) a set or b) combo-draw. He has blockers to two of the more likely sets, so he leans heavily towards the combo draw.

Jan. 19, 2013 | 4:25 p.m.

I use tactic C together with the last paragraph. That is, as soon as the 2 opps on my left have shown loose passive characteristics I skip the fine-tuning and open PS from BTN.

Jan. 19, 2013 | 3:57 p.m.

Would you ever slowplay JT on the turn 4-way in 3bet pot tho? I guess you might, since lot of 2pairs/sets bet IP.

Jan. 13, 2013 | 5:34 p.m.

Against a heavy 3-better I am not so thrilled about the preflop call, since the hand is very uncoordinated and will flop pair+FD or pair+gutter a lot, which would be easy to play vs AAxx heavy range, but against a more balanced range of decent high pairs/good rundowns/decent suited aces/broadway - it doesn't do so well.
You are deep, but on the flop SPR is just over 5, which is still on low side.

On the river. For the bluff to be good I would guess you would also have to value bet A with low kicker, otherwise you represent a very narrow range (ATxx basically).

Jan. 13, 2013 | 5:27 p.m.

Regarding eldodo42's bluffing range. With our hand we usually have somewhere between 25% and 40% equity if UTG 3bets our raise (9xxx, overpairs with FD (KdxdKx most notably)) and it seems pretty bad to fold out so much equity. That is, if the plan is to fold to a flop 3bet.So complete air seems better for bluffing purposes here. Smth like AJT8s, even tho it does have a pivot card on the flop.

Jan. 13, 2013 | 5:10 p.m.

I found the parts about 3-betting/4-betting/calling 4-bets and the related math very useful from the PLO From Scratch articles.

Other stuff seems to be based in large part on Jeff Hwang books/hand categories, which are very good for foundation.

Dec. 8, 2012 | 12:30 p.m.

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