happyluckbox
0 points
My standard is to turn suited wheel aces into 5bet bluffs, and the occasional small pocket pair, and to obviously adjust based on game flow. After running equity in stove however, it seems that small pocket pairs do slightly better (about 5%) than A2-5s, assuming a call range of TT+ AQ+.
Obviously i can tinker around with villians call range, say exclude AQ, and then A2-5s does better, but it would seem incongruent that villian would call TT and not AQ.
Using combinatorics/math, I am also factoring in blocking potential of Axs when calculating equities, but it cannot makeup the 5% equity edge of 22-55. Also, another factor is that A2-5s block some of villians 4bet folding range.
Most training materials advise using Suited aces as well, but after doing some work on my own, iit seems that the slight edge may go to smaller pairs?
Once again I realize that you want to use a combination of both small pairs and suited aces, depending on villians call range, but what would be the Premium 5bet bluff hand in a vacuum?
April 11, 2016 | 5:41 p.m.
Nvm, found a post made by bigfish last year that explains the math.
July 22, 2015 | 9:55 p.m.
okay, well this wasnt a troll post, I always assumed that gto applied to all postflop streets, but thanks for clarifying it only applies on the river.
Is there a video on rio that further explains this concept of 1:2 flop 1:1 turn 2:1 river value:bluff ratio?
Or can you guys show me the math behind it?
I understand that turn and river dynamics can change the situation, but why exactly is it 1:2 and 1.1 otf and ott?
July 22, 2015 | 6:14 p.m.
Im sorry what?
if hero is betting 1psb you need 2:1 value to bluffs, because you are offering your opponent 2:1 odds to call. Therefore if you bluff 33% of the time your opponent becomes indifferent to calling.
I think you may have misread my post or misunderstood my question.
July 22, 2015 | 9:55 a.m.
assume hero is btn and villian is sb in a single raised pot.
hero is only betting full pot sized vs checking the flop.
Qh 7c 4c
Constructing my flop value range, do we include weak hands such as 66, 55, 33, 22 and 4x? i feel like these hands aren't really for value (more for protection) but if i dont include them in my value range, i have a hard time constructing a small enough bluff range. ( since i am betting full pot and need 2:1 value:bluffs.
Flop value range
Aa 6
Kk 6
aq 12
Kq 12
Qj 12
Qt 12
JJ 6
tT 6
99 6
88 6
77 3
66 6
55 6
44 3
q7s 2
74s 3
q4s 2
K7s 3
j7s 3
T7s 3
a7 12
97s 3
87s 3
76s 3
75s 3
a4 12
K4s 3
64s 3
54s 3
43 3
33 6
22 6
178combos
Flop bluffing range
Ak 16
aj 16
at 16
Kj 16
Kt 16
Jt 16
98s 2
65 16
AcX 24
AcXc 5
141 bluff combos
So here is my dilemna, even when i include weak hands lime 4x 33 22 in my value range, and limit my cbet bluffs i still come up with waaay too many bluff combos as opposed to value.
178:141
i should be aiming for 178:89 but it seems really weak to start cutting out any more cbet bluffs.
keep in mind this is for a full pot sized bet as well, if i was cbetting 1/2 pot, i could only have 25% bluffs which makes it even harder.
Notice i havent even started including any flush draws outside of Nfds in the bluffing component...
so how do top players reconcile this issue? am i making any mistakes here?
July 20, 2015 | 7:47 p.m.
Hey everybody, sorry if this is in the wrong area. I'm currently working on designing multiple river value:bluff contruction, and I was wondering if my range at the river is influenced by the line we take to arrive at the river. Are we supposed to be designing ranges for bet bet bet,
bet check bet, and check bet bet? And also does position play a factor when constructing optimal river ranges?
For example, say hero is CO vs villian OTB
Hero decides to bet 1/2 pot at the river on As 7h 2d 3h Kc
Hero's value betting range would look something like:
AA, 77, 22, 33,
AK, A7o,
A3s, A2s
AJs+
AJo+
which is 58 combos, so hero needs 19 bluff combos in order to make villian indifferent.
So hero's bluff range could look something like
QJ-98hh, 65hh
QThh-T8hh, 86hh, 64hh
Q9hh
Q8hh, J8hh,
44
which is 19 combos.
Notice how I designed these ranges for a bet, bet, bet line. Hero would always take this line with his VALUE bet,bet,bet range and his triple barrel bluffing range by the river. And these ranges make sense for CO vs BTN, because hero would never play Q8hh, or J8hh in an earlier position.
So that all makes sense and is fine and dandy, but what happens if hero had taken a Bet check bet line instead, and hero bets 1/2 pot at the river? Do I need to design entirely new ranges for value/bluffs at the river?
So I'm thinking:
For value:
KK
K7ss K7dd
KQ, KJ, KT,
41 combos
So i need (41/.75) -41 = 14 bluff combos
For bluffs
QJss, QJcc, QJdd
and 2/3 of QJo
which is roughly 14 combos.
Am I doing it right?
And what about position? Do I need an entirely different river range construction based on my position? Like obviously I can't include Q8hh and J8hh and if I were opening UTG.
Correct?
So one last question, I know now that for the better it goes roughly 1: 2.25, 1:1.25 and 2:1 value bluffs for flop turn river accordingly. (assuming psb)
What about the defending player who is playing gto? I know on the river he has to call 50%, does that ratio change on the turn or flop?
July 22, 2015 | 10:03 p.m.