I think your points have a lot of validity. At the time I did think it was a bit of a loose open. I mostly was ok with it pre because I felt I had an edge vs a BB who would be overfolding against me.
But of course yeah it puts me into spots like these where I'm not really in much of a great spot. Part of the reason why I am ok with a CB to begin with is because at least I get a shot at taking down the pot with a not very good hand OTF.
Aug. 3, 2019 | 2:12 a.m.
3-handed atm. BTN folds and I open 9h 567ccc from my SB. BB calls.
Flop Tc 2c 4h.
My autopilot is telling me to c-bet 1/3rd here. But thinking on this hand I can't actually form too many good reasons as to why and I'd appreciate some feedback and discussion on what we want to be doing in these spots.
My main points of consideration at the time were this:
- I would c-bet here with most of my overpairs, flush draws, TPTK-ish and better type stuff. So this is in-line with my cbet range.
- 5 and 6 blockers reduce his 6 high straight continues.
- 9 reduces his Tx combos a bit
Some points I wish I could have considered in total, looking back on the hand:
- Having 3 diamonds reduces his flush draw range as well as his overall calling range. (cbet success more likely?)
- Bet/folding isn't a huge deal? Are we really throwing away that much viable equity with a bad FD/GS OOP? Only thing we feel comfortable on is the gutshot since I don't plan on playing for 100bbs with this low of a flush draw.
- No nut flush blockers and no actual made hand to protect, as well as it being single raised pot.
- Check/call puts me in a weird spot where I'm not even sure what I'm trying to make
- I don't have a lot of checkraise here as these players don't stab all that often.
Appreciate any feedback.
Aug. 2, 2019 | 6:29 p.m.
This is something I hear a lot and am wondering how it's specifically defined.
Is blocking continues:
I have JJTT and the board is JJTT. Because I have double quads, the opponent will have virtually no hands interested in moving forward on this board.
Or is it
I have TTTT and villain needs a T to make his gutshot, which he's never getting. And because of this I block him from hitting the card that makes his hand.
Oct. 16, 2018 | 7:27 a.m.
I've been doing a lot of review on hands/vid notes etc. and it brought me to this one situation where I'm finding myself to be kind of lost, or at least feeling very imbalanced. I'd like to put my thought process under a microscope here and get some feedback. BTW, I'm really just interested in turn discussion here, more than anything else, though of course it is the flop play that leads to the turn play.
For ease of discussion let's just say it's 100 PLO. And villain's readless. 100bb eff.
Folded to me, I open for $3.50 in CO with AK57ss suited to the ace and 7. BTN calls. Rest fold. HU to flop.
Flop Q85r with one spade giving me bot pair and BDNFD. I bet $5.00, IP calls.
Turn Ts - board - Qc 8d 5s Ts
So this is basically a spot I tend to be check/calling here as a default and very rarely am I barreling turn.
- I'm making an assumption that the T improves villain's range quite a bit and I'm pretty much betting while behind if I barrel turn
- Betting and getting raised off my hand here is pretty crummy.
- This make my check/calls pretty imbalanced as for the most part this is how I'd play all my NFD's here. Though I suppose I'd play sets like this, sometimes.
- My check/call feels fairly face-up, IMO, and it makes me unsure if I'm just not playing this spot very well to begin with.
So to me I'm wondering if there's a mixture of an exploitable line/bad line, flawed thinking, and flawed poker. I wonder if part of the problem is that I am giving villain too much credit for improving his range with the turned T?
Would appreciate any feedback, thanks.
Oct. 11, 2018 | 9:03 p.m.
I'm a little surprised about suggestions to fold to the CB. While we don't have any reads or stats on the villain, one thing I'd take into account is that he's 3-betting from BB. So to me that fills his range with more high cards/high pairs/high value hands in any 3b scenario. There will be less hands that were trying to iso from SB for better HU value/playability, i.e. mid rundowns that smash this flop.
And at these stakes I think a lot of players will overvalue aces or kings and bet flops like these pretty large, even if they are poor for their hand and their range. Like if this were a tough reg at higher stakes, yeah I'd definitely place a different value on my hand. But people do all kinds of wacky things with aces at micros.
I dunno, maybe I'm just all wrong here? Would definitely value some further discussion on this point.
FWIW I can't see myself folding pre 3-handed, but I do wonder if I'm overvaluing a hand like this OTB. And I would call flop, instead of raise. As played I agree with Mega that your showdown value's basically never good here. I think bluffing is the only way to win the hand, but whether your bluff will be effective or not is a way diff question. I feel like I get looked up quite often here if I'm taking this line.
Oct. 11, 2018 | 7:48 p.m.
Thanks for the vid suggestion, will check it out when I can.
But yeah I get proximity blockers and have made it a point lately to think them through more often. But that's easier because it makes more instinctual sense to me than T6, which are further apart from each other. Or say having one ace in hand blocking A4 or A6 on an A46 board in another hand I watched.
Any thoughts on the efficacy of utilizing blockers though? I took some time to learn 2-7 TD and one of the things I learned was drawing and tossing a few relevant blockers is worth about 3% equity per card.
Suggested video aside, I'm basically wondering if there's something more technical to lean on when studying blockers, or if it's all more of an instinct thing.
Oct. 9, 2018 | 9:49 p.m.
Having tried to re-integrate myself into the poker world after years away, one big difference I've observed is an increased awareness of blockers. Pre-BF I can't really remember any discussions of blockers that went very far beyond using the nut flush blocker to make a bluff, or say AA to bluff on a QKJ board.
But having consumed a lot of newer material, there seems to be way more advanced thought on blockers, things that I for sure haven't heard of, at least up till now.
Anyway, had a couple notes on some PG vids I watched a while ago and would like to hear thoughts on the blocker usage.
Hand 1: PG has JTT2hh on an 88J5dd board. He mentions how having the J blocks villain's JJ and J8. Now I definitely get how JTT2 literally is its own blocker to the J, especially with having TT remove some TJxx type hands as well. But I'm not quite getting how we can also say that having the J blocker also extends to blocking J8. (beyond that they're semi-connected?)
Hand 2: PG has AAKT on a 68T6r board. Similar to the other hand, PG mentions how having the T here blocks TT and T6. So, again the first I get but having the T extend to blocking T6 I'm unsure of.
So, any thoughts on what I'm missing here? Is there a good post on theory or math I can also check out, that helps show not just the correlation of having this T blocking the TT and the T6, but also its efficacy?
I want to be able to not just understand the concept, but also to confidently utilize this information in making decisions as well.
Oct. 9, 2018 | 8:34 p.m.
Thanks for the response.
I thought it was interesting too because the pro didn't elaborate on what he thought his hand looked like to villain. But he did mention how villain would be able to bluff him off many rivers and value bet straights safely against hero's capped range.
But to me, since I do have a c/c range here that includes some made full houses, I wonder how actually "capped" we might be here. And as a result, just how safe it is for BB to be vbetting his straight OTR.
FWIW I do agree that 89x type hands won't be there, nor will QKJ. I think I see weak T and AQ+ show up quite often here as well if river checks through.
Also interesting point I hadn't thought about with the AT blocker. I think that's a nuance not too many others consider.
Oct. 6, 2018 | 4:57 a.m.
This is from an observed hand from an elite pro vid.
6-max, 100bb effective. Both players are TAG-ish and not doing anything crazy.
Hand is folded to the blinds. SB opens for 3x big blinds, BB calls.
SB bets 4.5bb's, BB calls.
SB checks, BB bets 9bb's, SB calls.
For sake of discussion let's just say BB has QKJ9r and is taking a stab at the turn.
And let's assume SB isn't check/calling here to do something like bluff raise river or anything out of the ordinary. He has something whether it's a made hand/some kind of showdown value, or draw.
What type of hands do you expect a TAG SB to be check/calling here with, in this spot? Which hands do you think a competent opponent never really has by check/calling a paired turn?
I'm posting this because in the vid the pro says his hand is pretty face-up once he check/calls. So if a check/call range here is face-up, what's most commonly showing up in this range? Intuitively I think I see a lot of AK, AQ, AJ here, and some 89. I think most straightforward players will bet FH/trips here, and A7 has a lot of incentive to barrel a straight draw off the turned T here. But beyond that, my best guess is pretty fuzzy here.
Oct. 4, 2018 | 1:56 a.m.
Thanks, Phil Galfond! That actually clears up quite a bit on a topic I've always wondered about: how you're able to so clearly differentiate between what hands need protection and when to check or bet them.
Like if we had a set here it's worth betting for the pure strength of the hand. Or if we had say bot pair/gs, betting to remove him from his perch in equity is also worthwhile. But betting a middling hand here when we're already doing well equity-wise can create for difficult turn/river spots - or create pots that are bigger than this hand really wants to play. Is that about right?
Sept. 21, 2018 | 8:50 p.m.
Hi, Phil. Thanks for the vid. I think your exploration of bigger bet sizing and full potting has been very valuable. As a player returning to online poker after being away for years because of BF, reconfiguring this aspect of my game has often been challenging and confusing in terms of what's optimal.
I'm hoping that you can make another HH video soon where you bring up more situations in which a full pot bet is more the optimal sizing. Maybe something similar to the vid where you discussed varying bet sizes in 3bp's IP/OOP, but for more run of the mill and smaller (single-raised) pots?
A question also!:
The 8456ds hand at around 49:30 - We decline to bet the turn, I believe because villain had just slow-played a hand on the more passive side. So betting turn opens us up to getting raised off our hand, which we want to avoid: is that correct?
My question is: isn't there value in us betting to protect our 2p against hands like QJ9K, AQTx, etc. to try and prevent them from drawing to better 2p OTR?
Sept. 16, 2018 | 4:15 a.m.
Thank you for the replies, everyone. I think I've always bet/called or bet/GII depending on opponents. And on occasion I would bet/call and try and dodge a turn pair against certain classes of players.
I'll definitely think to try and use a different CB size here the next time. Are you guys thinking something along the lines of 60-70% pot?
I do think one thing I forgot about using is the power of position. i.e. if it did come a turn straight completing card I'd be able to make a mostly clearer read of what to do if he, say, potted turn at that point.
FWIW I did call to see a turn. Turn was an offsuit ace : Jh 9h 2c As - Villain pots.
Is this a clear fold on the turn?
Sept. 1, 2018 | 8:38 a.m.
Hi, guys. First post here. Hope it's ok to post hands without a HH, as the site I play on doesn't convert.
100 PLO 6-max. I am 100bb's deep UTG.
Kh 6h 7d Ks.
I open to $3.50
Folds all around to BB. He calls.
Flop: Jh 9h 2c. kings and k-high FD.
BB checks, I bet $6.5. BB check/raises for pot.
I've mostly been away from poker since black friday and some spots are a little fuzzy to me upon returning. I'd always thought this was a standard get it in, but others disagreed when I discussed elsewhere. Maybe I was doing it wrong the whole time? Or I was confusing this with a 3bp spot? Not sure.
Using PPT I gave villain ranges of JJ/99/J9, some wrap combos, and NFD stuff and it was about 42% or so at worst, though do I wonder if those ranges are too generous/inaccurate. And I assumed betting flop was standard as I'm trying to also get value from lower flush draws and things like OESD's.
Thoughts on how this spot should be played?