so vs a fish, we do not need to randomize anything? sometimes as the fishes will do some freestyle move on the river, so sometimes when I got some bluff catchers I will choose to call 15-20% as SSNL live fishes are under bluffing. well over fold to river aggression is also fine.
yeah, b/b/b is better, x more nutter hands, J high is not that strong
Oct. 6, 2018 | 2:06 p.m.
£1/1 casino game. most of the players have £200+ eff.
V1=BB (£250) tilting live tournament fish (just busted from the tournament), used to be a regular cash player (a losing player)
before this hand, straddle, V1 EP limp, MP limp, Co £11 open, Hero £36 3bet with KK, V1 limp 4bet-Jam K9s, Co fold, I call but V1 flopped the flush and KK no good.
V2=SB (£250) weakfish
Hero (£300)=regular, solid and aggressive
Preflop. fold to Hero (btn), open £4 with J♦️5♦️, BB SB call.
As I know V1 will not 3bet-resteal with the range like A5s A9s.
Flop=Q♦️T♦️6♥️, xx, hero c-bet £6. SB folds V1 call.
Turn=9♦️, xx (?)
River=3♥️, V1 bet £18 to £24, I raise £57, V1 3bet jam.
I will snap fold or take bet turn bet river line vs an ABC/nit player and fold to any river aggression (0 bluffs there). VS a tilting fish I slow played 3rd nuts and got a tough decision.
1. Turn decision? (size, frequency, range? which flush combo I should check? The normal line I will take is 1/2 size with a low frequency, occasionally only check back with nuts flush)
2. River calling frequency with Jhigh flush and K high flush in this spot. 10% 25%? or just fold all Jhigh flush as this is the bottom range? (in the game I choose to call 20% with Jd5d, I used the randomizer, call and win the pot, V1=KJ.
Sept. 30, 2018 | 3:44 p.m.
could we check 100% here? AA KK AT fd, flush draw. and x-r 0%. then play the turn？
if cbet I still like 1/3.
Sept. 24, 2018 | 1 p.m.
I decide x-c, lead-turn is because AJ is quite weak to x/r flop, so I decided to use x-c, leading a blank turn card, to instead of x/r flop. Now I understand xc xc is better. thx. the reason I call the turn and river is, it does not make sense:
QT, T7 cannot shove the river, 89, 9J and set will x/r flop or leading turn. still can beat some Tx, Jx with backdoor flush.
Sept. 24, 2018 | 10:02 a.m.
BB: $10.10 (Hero)
should I build a donking range here?
KJ is one of my top range here.
SB lost and shows a pair of Jacks.
BB wins $20.66
Rake is $0.97
Sept. 23, 2018 | 3:19 p.m.
LATB hand, not sure if I can discuss it.
Turn decision, this is not optimal play by Andy for sure, but I want to know is Andy bluffing here to let the weak player (i am not sure if he is aggressive or passive rec player) fold A3 A5？or he is just overplaying his AJ? or he just want to deny the equity vs FD? He could be drawing dead vs set, straight, 2P.
What is the best size we should use on the turn? Is checking here is bad?
Is Andy made a super good counter play as the weak player just x-r 6x to our turn c-bet? call/fold/jam?
I think in the most live game we cannot call off AJ here.
I can believe the weak player just x-r 90bb and not gamble with his last 100BB with a FD.
July 8, 2018 | 12:52 p.m.
user_name would V have an optimal flop raising range here or V can only raise 7x, TT and FD? remember this is not HU pot, u have to bet JJ for value and deny equity for sure.
Have to agree with Krzysztof Slaski:
**my best guess is we want to favor betting, especially if we are perceiving this player as passive
so the only question is much we should c-bet here. will Hero c-bet ThJh here? AA? 99? 98s? what is your c-bet range and frequency here? I prefer to c-bet a lot here with 30-45 size (60 to 105 is quite big, we want V to continue alow weak/air range otf and we could have more fold equity when we c-bet turn). I donk think we can bet big otf then check on the turn. For e.g. I will bet 35-45 with AA and TJs here,
I even don't mind c-bet 44 here as I will c-bet a lot of hands with backdoor equity hands such as 98s etc.
I do not like X/R vs stab strategy with JJ, normally u call only called by 7x and TT.
if Hero goes xr line, c-bet turn or slowdown? if Hero goes xc line, xr jam turn? or xc xc x-fold river if V bet bet bet? Any AKQ heart on the turn, our JJ become a bluff catcher and missed value vs TT99886655 and FD or 4x. the info tells us one of the V is passive, u have to build the pot by yourself.
I know in 5/10 we still play more counter strategy, but if you scared to play 4 street game u should play the online 100BB game.
on the river, we know V is making a milk bet with nutter range or he wants to make a cheap bluff and levelling you, let u think he has the best hand. Never played 5/10 at the Bellagio, but knows that the dynamic of the game is people under-bluffing otr,
for live read, Hero bet flop bet turn then x otr, it is hard for a passive recreation player to bluff enough if he bet the river. but recreation players only play their own hands, if they miss they will choose a random play: check to give up or take a shoot. It is a total guessing game for us and GTO/math play an insignificant role here.
I think it is fine to fold as most of the time calling is break even. even we fold and then V show a bluff to us I still think its fine. As I said V should go bigger size to polarize his river betting range.
if V only milk bet with nutter range and goes bigger size with bluffs，that is fantastic.
July 7, 2018 | 6:04 p.m.
The logic of using this size on the turn is chaos:
Most spots I think we should be betting bigger when turn barreling.
Pio generally likes a bigger more polarized sizing when barreling turns on relative blanks.
In a heads up pot, folding any Tx, much less all the Tx would certainly be overfolding.
these are optimal play, right?
*Technically, only I know that I am not bluffing enough there and even so don't really see how that would affect our sizing.
I am never betting a hand like KT on the turn also so don't think a smaller size is better.*
But you play very exploitatively, right?
Either way, I did not assume the BB would fold all of his Tx. If I did assume that then I wouldn't be under bluffing.
So why you think V will follow the optimal play here?
I am not sure if the V is really solid GTO player (5/10? maybe not), if he does, I think it is OK to bet pot size on the turn, and discussion is done. You even need call/jam KK here. Run PIO and see the result (if you run plz share the result).
If V is not solid GTO player, just an average TAG style, live winning player, I would not using this size, a player like this can easily over fold KT here, so you do miss value. As U will never have enough bluff on T42r 6r when you bet pot size on the turn. the bottom range of your turn bet will be AT there, especially your image is Regs probably assume I bluff way less than what is accurate.
Both of you are not solid GTO players, using everything from Pio is not good, we are playing the different opponents. GTO helps us to be away from exploitatively, but this is the live game, we are not playing against Top world class pros, right? (never played 5/10)
If you have KT or TJ, you check turn? how about 88 99 77?
if turn completes backdoor flush, I am fine to bet big, but T42r 6r, I am not.
if you can bluff enough with AQ AK high here, I am fine, but you will always under bluff with this size, it is too easy to counter you vs an average reg. So it still is levelling game, u think he thinks u are bluffing, blablabla.
as played, u have to call the middle set. He may have 64, 22.
June 24, 2018 | 4:03 p.m.
i think JJ is a call. will he call call bet with all the 7x? i think he will raise a lot 7x on the flop and turn. so river he will have KQhh KThh K9hh, KQdd, KTdd, 44, 99, 79 but 44, 99 he should go bigger size to polarize his river betting range.
and, what is your range otr? if you bet bet 99+, AhKh goes bet bet bet, i think u have to call with JJ otherwise your are over folding.
MDF=1-(200/(485+200))=0.708. if we x-r 2 KK combos, AA bet bet bet,
river=38 combos, MDF=28 combos=KK 2, QQ-TT, KJhh, KJdd KThh, KTdd, 87s=24. so optimal play is call.
but you said he is a passive guy.
so call 200/(485+200+200)=0.22.
if he is bad or just thin value u and bet small with all his bluff as well,
His range=77, 99, 79, 44=9. and He slowed play A7s
and he value betting with KJ, KT, K9 heard and demon=23 combos.
his bluff: A8dd, A8hh, (AQhh, AQdd, AThh, ATdd, check)
86hh, 65hh, 65dd, T8hh, QThh, A6-A5hh, A3-A2hh=33 too many bluffs,
you should defend JJ unless u got enough history from this said: he only bet such small for value, otherwise he can bluff all his missed flush draw for +EV.
June 24, 2018 | 3:01 p.m.
my open size is always same unless I am on the btn. In SSNL, you just rarely play HU pots, unless u iso/open super big, but if u get 3bet (in a 4bet size) you have too fold. so don't worry about if you can get an HU pot or not. Our iso/open aim is:
1. build the pot if we win
2. deny V's equity, even we have AA.
3. let the worse hand/worse player play with us. We still have the edge even it is multiway pots.
E.g. limp limp limp, we got ATo on co we open, call call call, it is fine if we miss, but flop comes Axx or Txx most of the time we are ahead and can get at least one street value from the limpers if they hit, but the pot is much more lager.
When I on BTN I still go to 4bb if more than 200BB EFF or 3bb in 100BB game, in Live SSNL game the recreation player have on idea that how much he need defend or how much he can fold, they only play their card. If they defend 74s and Q8o on SB, it does not make sense if we use 2bb or 2.5bb size like we do when we play online.
open raise as well. Some weaker player may limp-call KQs, ATs, AJo etc and small pp, their acceptable limp call price is inelastic vs Hero‘ size, so why not go bigger？If you are playing a 100BB game, just play tight ABC style, or even play Nit if you have some station players on the table, fold your suited connector or over limp in the later position, cannot raise 67s to 8bb on co vs 3 limpers in a 100BB games, if you get 3bet or limp-raise u have to fold. if they call call call, u can do nothing with your 67s unless you flopped super good.
But IP I still like to open/ iso big with ATo KQo+ 88+, A4s A5s vs 2+ limpers. It is far harder to play these hand in a 4 or 5-way limp pot. You cannot just over-limp then check-fold until you hit, and sometimes you still behind even you hit TPGK, 2P, as this is a limp pot, SB BB has everything, and EP MP limpers may have all the set, and even AAKK (they want to limp-raise but no one open).
June 24, 2018 | 2:07 p.m.
3 and half years, 1/1 1/2£, I normally sit down 500£ on 1/1£ and 800£ on 1/2£, 4000 hours.
I would like to comment the very good answer from RuNPuR3/ ATRC.
Open Raise at least 4-5x and add one bb for every limper.
if 3 limpers before me I normally make 8bb, if I am in sb/bb I made to 10-11bb, in 100BB game I play this hand as a 3bet as my open size is too big (also tighter your open range when you are sb/bb, check ATo, KQo on sb/bb if too many limpers).
Cbet a lot less multiway and much smaller. For example I find myself cbetting about 35-40% of the time and much less oop also a lot smaller like 30-40% pot heads up is effective and bigger 70-80% vs multiple opponents with top of your range.
Avoid Isolation 3bets. They Don't work as often as online. Very rarely will a 4b/5b shove for over 100bbs be a reckless bluff. Preflop is pretty straightforward compared to online. (Unless the guy is tilting or drunk).
I do not totally agree with this. It depends on the stakes/player type/effectiver stacks/table dynamics. If a nitty player who only has 5% RFI maybe not a good idea to 3bet too light, as they never folding and their range is so strong. If a fish player open and a reg call, or a reg open a fish call, it is not too bad to 3bet and plays HU with fish. But do less 3bet light if it is 100 BB game, as their PFR are so low, they would not fold enough for our 3bet light, cold call open is not too bad and just fold your KQo KJo to passive player's open.
Use a GTO strategy only against the best players at your casino and just abuse and exploit the weak regs and fish. Avoid ego wars!
No ego, No GTO vs fish, always exploitative, always counter. While, if you play a tough game or high stakes will a lot of top players, GTO is the only choice for you. Among all the young, GTO, top players, the one who has less bankroll and bad emotion control definitely have the lowest win rate. I don't play the table that I have to play the optimal strategy for everyone, no fish!!!
Game select effectively around your casino and avoid bad seats or tables vs top players in your casino.
A good customer is the first priority. To become a winning player, U have to beat all the recreation players in the player pool. If u want to improve your win rate, U have to smash most of the bad regulars in the room. If u want to go to higher stakes, U have to be one of the top players in the player pool. But if u always have 3 big customers on your table, u can still have a very high win rate even you just play ABC.
+my personal advice: if you are the top player in the player pool and you also have a solid bankroll (and emotion control), always cover the fish and play deep stacks with them. They made the huge mistakes and they play far soft/over crazy when they are deep. if you are one of the top players, playing deep stacks can maximise your win rate.
Avoid distractions at all costs and focus intensely on reads and tells. It is amazing how much information people give off with their body language, expressions, and tone. You can make some amazing folds and bluffs in spots where you couldn't see online by picking up on physical reads and table dynamics.
Do not play your phones. The solid players always focus on the game. The guy who plays PS or watches poker videos on their phone is bad, inexperienced player. If is too boring listen some music is fine though.
Try to be personable and social in a action table full of fish instead of stoic and silent. You will get more action that way even if your playing tight. You will stick out as a rock if you barely interact with the table.
Entertaining the fish. give them fun!
Avoid playing loose though, keep composure and don't let it effect your game.
Do not play too loose even your are the best player on the table.
June 24, 2018 | 1:33 p.m.
calling 3bet range=88-JJ, AJdd+, AQ+=40 combos (4bet all QQ+ AKo and some bluffs such as A5 A4s)
MDF=16.4 combos=AJdd AQdd, 99+.
U will not bluff with AdQx here as well,so if you will raise all AJdd AQdd and AdQo u need call two 88 combos as well.
As no info so the decision is made by math and optimal play. if u got the dynamics of the room, u can over fold if they always heavy value over bet /defend more they bluff too much. I think fold 88 is OK, 88 is one of my bottom pocket pairs.
well if they are not too good, over-fold to a river over bet is fine, even only defend JJ AQdd AJdd here.
June 24, 2018 | 12:30 p.m.
as Krzysztof Slaski said, I just don't like your 4 bet size. New guy＝75bb, Asian guy=90bb, why not jam pre？Live SSNL short stack fish will commit JJ+, AK+ when they have 100BB (I play live SSNL in the UK, my friend said 1/2$ may be more nitty than ours), sometimes even TT 99 because he thinks you got AK. by raise to 2.6x 4bet, u created such bad SPR (less than 1:1).
if u 4bet small with QQ+ and only jam AK is a bad exploitative play as well. pot is=10+10+20+1+2=43, it is not bad to take it down right now if no one calls you: as you will do the same thing with AK or even super light bluff such as KQo sometimes.
if A on the flop (22%), your KK became a bluff catcher, and it freezes the action from QQ JJ. So here I will always jam QQ+ AK, no reason trying to be cheeky with any other bet sizes.
JACKraceLUKE said small pre 4bet. go to 75$ spr=1:1 as well. if u 4bet AK and miss on the flop, what will you do? There is no room for doing anything, u cannot bet 1/3 1/4 pot and then fold.
Live SSNL don't need optimal play at all. If he is good young aggressive reg I will call turn call river. but this guy is a fish, I will click the fold button on the turn. this guy has all the JJ AK AQ AJs, and I do not think he is able to turn all his 99 TT to a bluff, he will always under bluff here.