UTG: $5496.06
HJ: $19111.38
CO: $2030 (Hero)
BN: $6585.80
SB: $2274.82
BB: $2226.09
Ok this hand bothered me a lot today and I still have no clue how to approach this spot
I was at least 6 hours on the waitinglist for this game and was several times offline in between but somehow got to this table.
UTG is a solid reg who opens quite a lot from ep and plays pretty straight forward postflop.
HJ is the fish at this table; unknown but from china :D ; (he somehow managed to get a 20k stack) hes playing like i said for at least 6 hours and most chinese guys like to 3bet pre and dont like to fold to 3- / 4bets; they also like to barrel postflop. this is pretty speculative though, since i only see his country and his sick stacksize.
BTN is in this game for at least 6 hours too. he plays really aggressive and loose play (i havent decided yet if hes too aggro or really good, but definitely annoying to play against)
Preflop ($30.00) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt K K
UTG raises to $43, HJ calls $43, Hero raises to $200, BN calls $200, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $157, HJ calls $157
3bet is pretty std, but i dont know exactly what BTN's coldcallingrange there is (is it like TT+, AQs, and maybe AK to get the fish in, or like every pocketpair and like JTs?) note that hes quite deep against the fish and utg
Flop ($830.00) 3 4 5 (4 Players)
UTG checks, HJ checks
Ok what are your plans here???? b/f against the regs and stackoff against the fish??? or is the stack to pot ratio to small to find a fold?
Comments (16)
  • TheRatPack
    I think in this spot you have to bet/call if ts heads up vs any opponent.
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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  • phil long
    Its possible the btn has a wider range than is standard as he is over 300bb deep with the fish if he is sure that the fish is going to call and not 4bet too much (also have to worry about UTG finding a hand). However in general id say that it is pretty hard for the button to have a hand that beats you on this board. Think sets two pairs and straights are all pretty rare. And from what you have said about the fish definitely not folding if its hu. Only way i could ever consider folding is if i bet, btn called and fish raised. Then it would come down to what type of fish they are, if they are really passive it might be a fold. But if they are the type that are over valuing 77 orspazzing some % then dont think you can ever fold given how big the pot will be and how little equity you need to have. If you bet and get two calls then go with it on most turns.
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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    phil long
    note if you bet btn raises, fish raises then its prob a fold
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
  • allwind
    I think hurricanes analysis is spot on. Given relative positions and stack sizes. I think it is unlikely that UTG or HJ will bluff PF. I also think it is very possible BN is a lot more wide than normal. Because he knows, that UTG and HJ will not be able to come over the top with out pot comitting themselves. And he is super deep and has position on everybody.
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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  • Raphael Cerpedes
    There is already 800 in the middle and we have 1800 with KK on 345r, I dont see how we can ever fold our hand on flop here. I think c-bet the flop and shove most turns is very standard.
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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  • Sean Lefort
    Your description leads me to believe that BTN has been playing all day with the Chinese fish and likely is accustomed to playing very wide ranges in spots like this knowing that the fish will call the squeeze. So unfortunately I do believe we're going to be beat here a pretty decent amount of the time. I think we should start by betting and like stated earlier if there's multiple callers/raisers then we might be able to get away from it. These types of multi-way hands with wide-ish ranges are very tricky to analyze.
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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  • desperhate
    I think the best is to bet standard, if only called a 6, 7 , 2 and A ar the only scary cards maybe 8 ... I would bet a second barrell and play according to the action there and if things get crazy on the flop with raise ck raise I would get off the hand as said earlier, there's a lot of 22+ AT+, 78s 89 9T QJs in there ranges imo ... not much A2, and no 26, so here the scary ones are 33, 44 55 67 , so i tend more on a bet than a check ...
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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  • depresnyak
    Come on, even shove here is way more profitable than any line that involves folding (I mean, if you bet, BTN raises, fish re-raises etc, then maybe you can fold). You have the best hand about 80% of the time I believe.
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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  • BagOfSuck
    Why not check flop?
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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  • Adrian Milroy
    I would bet/call vs. BTN and HJ (chinese fish) if they raise you by themselves only, not both at the same time... If UTG C/Rs AI, I would fold (unhappily). I think that its unlikely for UTG to have a naked 6 there. The only other scenario of folding would be if you bet, somebody raised/jammed, and someone else call/jammed. Then you can actually get away from it comfortably.

    From a theory standpoint, I think its doubtful that BTN ever has you beat here (33, 44, 55, AA are very unlikely, A2s and 67s are simply never there, I think he has AK or QQ- tbh) and since HJ is the player the game's built around, I don't think you should be folding to him in this spot if it ends up being just the two of you. It would be nice to check this flop, and let the action unfold but 16 cards ruin your day on the turn. And like the boa constrictor said, with 800 in there and 1800 left, its hard to play this hand defensively for both reasons. So I think this is def a bet to start with. If you had AA in this spot, I think you could check it one time.
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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  • Jean-Christophe St-Pierre
    since B range is wide and unlikly to have hit fish range, I dont hate to check and let the reg B bet his wide range. this way i can get dead money. After that, i dont know. Depending on his bet sizing and if the fish call or fold, I will ahve to choose between raising (most likely option and probably all in), calling or the rare fold. then I can balance that by playing AK AQ A3s A4s A5s and even QK the same way
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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  • Joe Monge
    Here are we really thinking about b/f against IP player?? My question here would be, do the other reg's see you as a good player? If you were on the list for 6 hours, i assume they know you are reg and why you are joining such a table. In this case, I wouldnt mind an overbet AI on the flop. Flop rarely connects w/ fish, we know that and other reg's also know this. Why overbet such a strong hand, when its almost guaranteed to price out the only fish? Can see us picking up a call from TT-77 and 6x from the button or 1st position. Seems like there are alot more of these hands in both of their ranges than anything that dominates us on that flop. So some % of time we pick up the 800+ in the pot, and dont let ourselves get exploited by a reg, some % of the time we get in w/ dominating postiion against a reg, for reasons mentioned above, and some smallish % of the time we are dominated/dead. We can wait for a better spot to exploit fish, lets take regs money this time?!? :)
    posted 1 year, 3 months ago
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    nacekk
    omg
    posted 1 year, 2 months ago
    David Fu
    The problem is when we 3bet pre to isolate fish, I don't think we ever not have a hand. Not sure if the other regs can see the hero doing this with like A3-A6s because those would sort of only be the semi bluffs in our range when we overbet jam. Maybe AQ-AKs with a bd flush some percentage of the time..I do really like the idea thou.
    posted 1 year, 2 months ago
  • Brian Rast
    bet/call vs anyone hu. if bet, someone raises, and another enters the pot... fold comfortably.
    posted 1 year, 2 months ago
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  • PGalfondFollower
    I think this is a b/f situation to all the three players here. If u b/c here, u r putting urself in an very dangerous spot that u have no idea what they have and they can be 70% confident that u got an overpair. Even a big fish will rarely do something crazy in a 4way pot.
    posted 1 year, 2 months ago
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