bababooey143's avatar

bababooey143

5 points

I've been experimenting with node locking on Pio to develop strategies vs loose-passive and loose-aggressive players.

I'm not sure if these definitions are correct, but I would define loose-passive players as:

  • Play around 40-50% of hands preflop

  • Tend to call flop bets with any pair, any draw, and any Ace or King high

  • Only bet on the flop with Top pair+, and never bluff or raise.

And I would define loose-aggressive players as:

  • Play around 40-50% of hands preflop (same as loose-passive)

  • Tend to call flop bets with any pair, any draw, and any Ace or King high (same as loose-passive)

  • Bet the flop very frequently with any pair (top pair, underpair, middle pair, third pair, etc), any draw, and any Ace or King high.

The strategies that Pio recommends versus these players are very different.

Versus the loose-passive player, it is very straightforward:

1) Bet all strong hands (including top pair+) for value and vulnerable hands with SDV (like low pairs) very frequently for protection.

2) Check invulnerable pairs (like pocket Queens on a King-high board) very frequently

3) Bet draws very frequently

4) If we check, and Villain bets, fold everything but our strongest made hands and draws

However, against loose-aggressive players, Pio recommends a very different strategy.

1) Bet very infrequently on the flop - only bet weak pairs.

2) Check top pair+, draws, and air.

3) However, if Villain bets with a weak range, Pio recommends a super aggressive check-raise strategy. We should check raise polarized with all of our top pair+ hands, and all of our draws.

I'm wondering... Do the assumptions I've been using with Pio/ node locking translate well into real situations in live low stakes poker?

Versus loose-passive players in live low stakes games, does it make sense to play a straightforward strategy of

1) Betting top pair+ for value

2) Betting weak pairs for protection

3) Betting draws

4) Check folding everything else

And versus loose-passive players who c-bet way too frequently with trash, does it make sense to:

1) Only bet weak hands with SDV OOP

2) Check-raise aggressively with strong hands for value + draws?

I've been spending a lot of time trying to develop strategies versus types of players I might encounter in live lowstakes games. Does anyone have any general tips on what sort of characteristics many of them have, and how we can use Piosolver to exploit them?

Sept. 18, 2018 | 8:25 p.m.

Hmm. This is interesting. So instead of trying to generalize one "common" strategy, I should play around with different strategies so I can adapt and adjust vs different opponents?

Sept. 11, 2018 | 10:54 a.m.

Lets say Villian is defending 'X'% of hands in that spot. Your EV of lets say AJ is totally dependent on the other hands in your range, The EV of lets say 22 and 87 and whatever else, all of your hands in your range will gain or loose EV depending on what your entire range is made up of.

Can you explain this concept a little more? For example, let's say:

Player 1 opens 100% of hands preflop

Player 2 only opens pocket Aces and folds everything else pre-flop.

Let's say the board is AKQ, and both Player 1 and Player 2 are holding pocket Aces.

Why does the range of both players impact the EV of playing pocket Aces in one particular situation?

Sept. 11, 2018 | 10:51 a.m.

Hmm. I'm definitely not going to study node locking situations to the exclusion of fundamental principles. I'm definitely going to do both.

But... If we do node lock, do you think the assumptions I listed in OP are correct... Or should we change them?

Sept. 11, 2018 | 10:22 a.m.

Yeah, this is probably a good rule of thumb. Out of curiosity, what is your 5b value range, and what's your 5b flat calling range?

Sept. 11, 2018 | 10:15 a.m.

Let's say you value bet the flop (with top pair/ top kicker), and the IP player raises. Since there are a lot of draws on the board, you suspect the IP player might be bluffing you.

What is the best play in this position? Should you call the raise, and then check the turn? The advantage to this is you give him another opportunity to bluff... But the disadvantage is you allow him to check the turn and see a free river card.

Is it ever strategic to lead the turn by betting - to either make him fold, or pay in order to realize his equity on the river?

Sept. 9, 2018 | 10:18 p.m.

With a 40bb over-bet into a 27bb pot, your minimum defense frequency is 40% to avoid being bluffed by any two cards.

Given how dry this board is, you don't have very many value hands in your range, like Jacks or 5's. Pocket aces is definitely near the top of your range - there are very few better hands you could have.

Villain is definitely trying to polarize his range... But there's a high probably he was bluffing, and figured the overbet would scare you off.

It's possible he had a Jack or a 5.... But he would have to balance his range properly. Since Villain is an "internet kid," maybe he bluffs too frequently in this spot, given how dry the board is?

Sept. 9, 2018 | 10:10 p.m.

Let's say we're playing live low stakes, 100bb deep. What value/ bluff hands should we be 5-betting all-in, and what should our flat calling range be?

I'm a little bit confused as to how I should play borderline hands, like pocket Queens or AKo.

Generally speaking, should pocket pairs (like Queens) be more willing to go all in preflop, since they already have their equity and there's more importance of denying Villain the opportunity to realize his equity? By contrast, should AK be more willing to see a cheap flop, and then fold if they don't connect?

I'm a little bit confused about what my all-in preflop range should be, 100bb deep at small stakes, and how I should play borderline hands like QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, or perhaps KQ.

Sept. 9, 2018 | 9:55 p.m.

Seems like a bad river to bluff. Villain definitely has an Ace in his range. There's a high probability he has either has a pocket pair, or a pair of Aces, so I wouldn't bluff this river.

Sept. 9, 2018 | 7:36 p.m.

This is a really interesting spot. My first reaction was that it would be crazy to fold... But I'm having a hard time figuring what you could beat, besides a bluff. And, I think a bluff is extremely unlikely because your turn bet is basically committing you to the pot, so you have very good odds to call his shove. It would be a crazy spot for him to bluff.

Edit: Actually, I think it's possible Villain could have something like Aces, Kings, Queens, etc, and just be overplaying them.

Also, it's possible (though less likely) he could have a straight/ flush draw... What did he end up having?

Sept. 9, 2018 | 7:23 p.m.

Tbh, I think this is a bad board to barrel. The flop connects very well with BTN's flat calling range. (Even though it might technically connect with your range better, it still connects with his range).

Even though your turn shove is representing a straight or a set... I wouldn't expect most live players to fold a single pair. I would interpret the "sigh" to be "this is an ugly board... But I have a pair... So I'm calling down."

A lot of live players really don't like folding pairs. If you think there's a strong chance Villain has a good pair, I wouldn't bluff because he's going to call too frequently.

Sept. 9, 2018 | 7:17 p.m.

Theoretically, the answer is yes - Your 5bet jam range should be balanced with an appropriate number of value and bluff jams.

In practice, whether a bluff is profitable or not depends on how frequently Villain will fold. How often do live players who 4bet fold to a 5bet jam?

To unpack this, we have to know how frequently Villains 4bet for value vs 4bet bluff, and how often they fold their bluffs. I don't have any experience playing live high stakes, but just from what I've seen online... I don't see a lot of folding pre-flop. When egos are involved, they will often flat their 4-bet bluffs (like suited connectors) and try to connect with the flop.

So... If 5-bet bluff jams are unlikely to work (Because Villains 4-bet range is skewed to value and they are still likely to call with some of their bluffs)... In practice, they might not be profitable.

Sept. 9, 2018 | 7:06 p.m.

I've been playing around with Piosolver, and have been analyzing optimal strategies vs some of the most common errors average low-stakes players make, like

a) Too loose pre-flop range; b) low bluff frequency; c) high call frequency

For example, I've been analyzing a tight OOP range vs loose IP range on various flop textures, and have been node locking so that the IP player has 0% bluff raising frequency, and calls all pairs, all draws, and all Ace high cards.

Given these exploits, Pio wants us to bet virtually every flop texture 100% of the time with a large bet size.

Basically, the strategy is to bet the flop 100% of the time, because we have such a big range advantage (the only exceptions are underpairs that have strong SDV and are invulnerable, like checking Pocket Queens on a King-high flop).

The turn betting frequency is still very high, but slightly lower... Since Villain is likely to have a pair, we should bet complete air less frequently, but still lots of betting.

I'm wondering... Does this basic strategy work in live games vs weak players? In other words, heads up against against fish with weak ranges... Should we pretty much be c-betting every flop, and barreling with most of our range on the turn?

To what extent do these strategies actually work in live games, and what other exploits should I be considering as I continue to work with Pio?

Sept. 9, 2018 | 6:46 p.m.

In Applications of No Limit Hold'em, Janda has a lot of pre-flop charts. I would just memorize those, and then adjust based on how you want to exploit.

Sept. 9, 2018 | 6:38 p.m.

Post | bababooey143 posted in NLHE: Node locking question

I've just recently discovered node locking on piosolver, and I'm trying to predict common tendencies of average low stakes players. Obviously, there's no perfect answer, but I wonder if these are some good assumptions.

Average low stakes players are likely to:

a) Raise straights, sets, two pair

b) Call overpair, top pair, under pair, 2nd pair, 3rd pair, low pair, ace high, combo draw, flush draw, 8 out straight draw, 4 out straight draw

c) Fold everything else?

Obviously, this skews most villains into raising too infrequently (especially bluff raising), and calling way too frequently. Are these good assumptions, or should I change them?

Sept. 9, 2018 | 11:57 a.m.

Thank you very much! This is very helpful. I'm wondering what assumptions you would recommend I apply to weak players?

For example, are weak players likely to:

a) raise with straights, sets, and two pair;

b) call with overpair, top pair, underpair, 2nd pair, 3rd pair, low pair, Ace high, combo draw, flush draw, 8 out straight draw, 4 out straight draw; and

c) fold everything else?

Sept. 9, 2018 | 11:53 a.m.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason Piosolver prefers mixed strategies is because they allow you to capitalize on your range advantage, regardless of the specific hands you hold.

For example, if you're the PFR and the flop is A-K-Q, you should bet with a high frequency regardless of what cards you hold, because you have a range advantage and Villain should be more likely to fold.

However, doesn't this assume that Villain understands the importance of ranges and will give you "credit" for a strong hand when the board is favorable to your range? If Villain isn't thinking in terms of ranges, does it therefore make sense to forget about mixed strategies, and bet more polarized (strong hands for value and weak hands as bluffs)?

I've been having a lot of fun playing with Piosolver the last few days... But I'm still trying to figure out the best way to study Pio vs weak and exploitable opponents. Anyone have any tips for that?

Sept. 9, 2018 | 4:05 a.m.

I've been playing around with piosolver the last few days... And I've noticed that c-bet sizes and frequencies vary dramatically based on both player's ranges. Generally speaking, Pio recommends betting bigger, and more frequently into weak ranges, and betting smaller, and less frequently, into strong ranges.

In live low stakes, my style is very exploitative... However, I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to use Piosolver to improve my theoretical game vs weak players?

Generally speaking, what are some typical loose limping, RFI, and flat calling ranges for loose players? And is it worthwhile to be studying these ranges on Pio, to improve my strategy in live games?

Sept. 8, 2018 | 12:06 p.m.

These are the right questions to be asking.

Generally speaking, what percentage of non-online/ strategic players are capable of bluff-raising in this situation? The whole conversation of flush-blockers is only relevant if Villain is choosing his bluffs strategically... Which he may or may not.

Basically, in your experience, what percentage of middle-age men are capable of bluffing in this situation in a typical live game... And, without any additional information, what would you do in this situation?

I'm wrestling with it, because I think there's a decent chance a fish could raise with AJ, or even KJ, because he's overestimating his hand. However, generally speaking, most people tend to call when they have a pair, and only raise when they have at least 2 pairs. I'd probably take the low variance route and fold, but I'm not sure if that's the most ev+ in live Vegas games.

Sept. 8, 2018 | 11:21 a.m.

Comment | bababooey143 commented on Turn sizing

I'm not a poker expert, so take this with a grain of salt.

Depending on your reads, I might have considered betting the flop since you have the nut flush draw + straight draw, and the board is very dynamic (no high cards hit anyone's range).

Your flop raise is good, assuming you have a read on your opponent and think he is capable of bluffing. However, if he is on the passive side, it could be a very bad sign when he calls.

Unless he's aggressive and willing to float your flop raise with just high cards, I would interpret his flop call as strength, and assume he has at least a pair. If he's willing to call your flop raise, he's probably willing to call a turn bet...

So, I would go into check/ call mode, and try to see the River for as cheaply as possible to realize your equity. Don't barrel unless you think he has nothing and is willing to fold.

Sept. 8, 2018 | 10:54 a.m.

I'm not a poker expert by any means, but I would have sized up my flop c-bet a little bit, since the hand is multi-way and there's a strong possibility of straight draws.

If I was playing this hand live, I would have exploitatively folded my top pair to a 4x raise... But online, I would have probably made the same decisions as you on the rest of the hand.

However, I'm not sure if that is the most +ev play.

The key question is: Should you be willing to get 150 bb in with top pair pair, when faced with a 4x flop raise? Someone else will need to answer that for me.

Sept. 8, 2018 | 10:25 a.m.

I was wondering if anyone could critique the current strategy I use in my local $1-3 home game. The main exploitable flaws my opponents make are 1) Play too many hands; 2) Call down too frequently with marginal holdings; 3) Don’t bluff frequently enough.

1) Since most Villains aren’t observant enough to exploit me, I have both a RFI and limping range pre-flop. I tend to limp more with my speculative hands (low to mid pocket pairs, suited connectors, and suited one-gappers) and raise more with my premium hands (high pocket pairs and broadways).

2) I limp more frequently in middle/ late position, and when I’m less likely to get raised by players to my left.

3) The vast majority of hands go multi-way, and probably have an average of 4 players on the flop. In these situations, I reduce my bluffing frequency to essentially zero. It’s inevitable someone has hit something, and I have very little fold equity in these situations.

4) I essentially just C-bet hands for value (Top pair/ strong kicker+), and I check-call my flush and straight draws, assuming I have good implied odds.

5) I have a very high fold frequency when I'm faced with aggression, unless I have a strong read that Villain is capable of bluffing. I tend to fold my single pair hands if I'm raised.

6) My C-bet frequency is essentially 100% if I’m heads up against a passive opponent… But this happens very rarely. Most flops see too many players, so I almost never bluff.

I was wondering if you guys can comment on this basic strategy? My long-term goal is to eventually move up in stakes to $2-5, $5-10, etc. I’m assuming I’ll need to be less explotable if I move up… But against loose-passive/ unobservant players, does this generally work?

My table image is definitely on the nittier side… People are afraid to get into pots with me, because they always assume I have strong hands. Perhaps it’s worth bluffing more when I have very strong draws, like nut flush draw or open-enders, particularly if I’m just up against one or two Villains?

Also, in terms of exploiting fish, does anyone have any tips for the turn/ river?

Like I said, my long-term goal is definitely to move up in stakes. Does anyone have any recommendations on how I can optimize my study time with Piosolver to get there? I'm having a hard time figuring out to what extent Piosolver is relevant vs weak opponents... and if it is, how I should be using it?

Sept. 8, 2018 | 9:47 a.m.

I know this is an extremely complicated question… And I don’t expect anyone to give me a very detailed answer.

But just on the most basic level: What is the best way to use Piosolver to improve my understanding of theoretically correct head’s up strategy?

I have a moderate amount of experience playing low stakes 6-max online and full-ring live… But I am a complete novice when it comes to heads up. I haven't even learned the basics, like pre-flop hand ranges.

I realize this is kind of an awkward question, but put yourself in my shoes: Imagine you are a complete novice at head’s up poker, but have 1000 hours and lots of motivation to master the game on a theoretical level. How would you spend those 1000 hours, and how would you get started specifically on piosolver (ie., what pre-flop hand ranges would recommend that I use in various positions, what flop textures should I enter, and what bet sizes would you recommend on various streets, etc)?

I have the time and motivation to learn… I basically just need some basic advice on how to get started memorizing the right stuff.

Sept. 7, 2018 | 1:09 p.m.

Thank you for responding!!!

1) What would you say are the most common hand ranges I should be focusing on? For example:

a) UTG (hero) vs BTN cold call

What are the other most common situations I should also be studying?

2) Do you think these bet sizes are optimal?

Flop: 33%; 67%; raise 3x

Turn: 33%; 67%; 150%; raise 3x

River: 67%; 150%; raise 3x

Should I work in a 100% pot size bet on the turn/ river as well?

3) The node locking concept is interesting. Basically, I can simplify my strategy, and then see how much EV I lose... And as long as I don't lose much EV, it is okay to simplify?

"Very important: Don't try to mimic the frequencies, if the solver bets a hand with some frequency and checks otherwise, that means that the EV of each decision is the same."

Basically, you are saying I should round the frequencies up or down? In other words, if it says check 80% of the time and bet 20% of the time, for my purposes, I should just check always (unless I'm trying to exploit my population)?

Aug. 28, 2018 | 9:13 p.m.

I recently purchased Piosolver, and I'm wondering if anyone can give me advice on how to best use the software to improve my game?

1) Right now, I'm planning to start with the 25 flop subset found here:

https://www.piosolver.com/blogs/news/62725637-choosing-a-subset-of-flops-to-represent-the-whole-game

Is this a good way to start?

2) I'm wondering what basic settings I should be using when building trees? For example, what bet sizes would you recommend on various streets, and what hand ranges should I be focusing on?

Right now, I was thinking about keeping it simple with something like:

a) Tight range in position vs tight range out of position

b) Tight range in position vs loose range out of position

c) Loose range in position vs tight range out of position

d) Loose range in position vs loose range out of position

Is this a good idea, or should I consider something different?

3) I'm wondering what my "big picture" observations should be for each tree. For example, what type of patterns/ observations would you recommend writing down... And how do I simplify all of this complex data into something I can realistically start memorizing?

I apologize if these questions have been asked before... I basically just need a simple post explaining "Piosolver for dummies."

Aug. 28, 2018 | 5:16 p.m.

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