Great Video, I really like this series.
I have a theory question about this hand that takes place 2 min into the video On the river, Phil says that his range is the nut flush and naked Kc hands and because of that he sees no reasons of raising less than pot.
What I would think at the river here is that I agree with that my range is nut flush or the Kc blocker but I would estimate that I have the nut flush 75% of the time and the blocker only 25% and I would there for choose a raise size of 75% Pot to make him indifferent to calling or folding.
Whenever I play against the better players it always surprises me that they will use pot size bets on the river where it too me feels like there range do not have enough bluffs to balance it and I tend to fold with a really high frequency vs those bets. It feels like I am missing something...
Any comments are welcome
April 5, 2017 | 2:03 p.m.
I tough this was slightly loose to but I think the answer is that our hand will play very well and have good equity when villain decides to call
Jan. 31, 2017 | 7:36 a.m.
Have been a way from poker a few months and trying to understand how AQ92ds could be a fold from CO vs SB cc and BB 3bet (pot). I quickly looked at some equities in propokertools and we was surprised too se that we only have about 28% here. Anyway if SB calls here too we only need 25%, right?
(60%) Relative position is bad
(25%) The flopebility is bad
(15%) It is going to be tough to play some Axx boards
The 3 main bad things I see with calling here is and () are my guesses to how much this factor affect this to make it a fold.
Another question I have is how wide is our folding range is this spot? If we fold this we must be folding over 20% here, right?
Thanks for a great video <3
Jan. 31, 2017 | 7:34 a.m.
Thanks for a good video Phil.
I have a preflop / theory question about limp reraising from the SB.
In the video you where 160BB effective against Durian and you said that 889Tss is a good hand to have in your limp/RR range and you will have limp/call, limp/rr and a opening range here.
Personally I do not understand why we like to limp/rr here since we will have such a hard time postflop. I also think it is hard to balancing the opening range (open/fold, open/call and open/4bet) with the limpRR is difficult. What hands in a vacuum do you like to have in your limp/RR range in this situation.
I always thought people took a exploitable lines when limp/rr at this stack depth.
Any comments from anyone is welcome
May 20, 2016 | 7:09 a.m.
Amazing observation DirtyD and very well written. I now have a post it note on my monitor saying:
"There seems to be an idea that fish just go broke with random hands all the time. That type of player exist but they're pretty rare and usually make themselves known quickly"
May 19, 2016 | 7:39 a.m.
I have a question about the hand around 11:00:
We open KQTT on B and BB calls, 2 players see the flop
Flop: Kh Qh 7c (10.5 usd on flop)
We bet 7.5 and villain raises to 26.5 (68 left in stack)
Here you say that you consider a call against a tough opponent. I do actually like a caller against a weaker player more since I think he will play the flush / straight card more face up that a tougher player and also has less bluffs in his range to start with.
Is there another reason apart from balancing our range that you like calling more that raising vs tough player?
I think I always call here unless read the villain is a complete maniac / tilting.
May 16, 2016 | 2:46 p.m.
I don't think the problem is that you play 2 tables of zoom I think the problem is that when you drag in the replayer over the tables it is very hard to follow the action. My suggestion is that you capture enough space with camtasia to always have the replayer visible.
I also think you have to slow down a bit with the folds pre and some of the postflop decision. In this speed I do not have the time to think thru what I would have done.
Otherwise great video
May 16, 2016 | 10:39 a.m.
Great video, love the leakfinders.
I have been playing PLO since the stoneage but had a break for 9 month. I notice us fold so much of the low / mid rundowns when it opened to us. 2 examples from this video is 4789ds in CO when UTG opens and in the end of the video OMG likes a fold with 8h 6s 5h 4h on the B after UTG (220bb) and CO (75bb) call (no short stacks in the blind).
I never fold the 4789ds spot and in the last hand I even put in some 3bets and never fold . Seams to me that we forget to value our position and balancing our board coverage.
Our range must be extremely high card heavy and it will be tough to represent so many "bad for the openers flops" since we actually have less low/mid cards than the opener.
Been running some preflop sims and it is true that we never will be a favorite in raw equity. I suspect that the fact that people play so much from the BB hurt the equity of flatting this hands, is that's why the preflop strategy have change so dramatic?
I can maybe understand the folds as an exploitable preflop strategy in very loose game but fold as standard feels so wrong to me.
Any comments are welcome
April 26, 2016 | 10:03 a.m.
I understand that some of the pros have a lot to do and that they already is giving away a lot of there thought process. I think it would be good if the pro stated in the comment if or between what dates they aim to respond to the video responses.
I think everyone would benefit from this. The problem now is that so many questions is directed to the pro so it is hard to get a discussion going without the pro responding. If we know that the pro is not going to be active in the thread we could word the question different to engage the others viewers to respond more or post the hands in the normal PLO forum.
March 31, 2016 | 8:20 p.m.
The 2nd hand I have a question about is the preflop fold of Tc 9h 8s 6h in SB vs Dumphi's 3x CO open (@ 8:22)
To me it seems that we have just enough raw equity to call here (even if bb call/fold/3b)
Sure we will be out of position vs a good player but I would value the visibility postflop and the board coverage for our range higher than that.
Are you playing 3B or fold here?
(Personally I do not like that strat because I feel forced to put in too much money pre with medium strong hands.)
Please help me understand this a bit better so I atleast can fold vs a 3.5x open.
March 29, 2016 | 2:43 p.m.
Hi Leo, nice to have you back.
I have a question about the hand 7:32 (3rd table)
You open B w 7c 9s Tc Qh, SB (tatar-kyzy) 3Bets and the flop is: Ks 7d 4c.
You say his range is very strong here and I like to know why you think that.
In this spot vs this Cb size I call almost all pairs and definitely with this hand with some backdoor stuff. I know I have good EQ vs his full range pre on this flop and if he CB 100% on this flop we would make a massive mistake by folding.
In reality I do not think he bet 100% here but I can't come up with any reasonable ranges that we can't call a 1/2p bet with here.
What's your logic for folding this and what am I missing with mine.
March 29, 2016 | 2:23 p.m.
I actually think we can hero fold the river a lot here without reads that villain goes crazy in this spot. My arguments for folding the hero folding the river here is:
BB is likely to have many AsXs and KsXs hand in his range, sure some naked Ace too but a lower ratio then MP vs BB for example.
Many times BB will find a reason not to go Bet/Bet/Bet with his A/K blockers on this board BB since he makes so many 2 pairs / Set / Str8.
March 24, 2016 | 10:06 a.m.
I always check the river in this spot and almost always follow thru when I do not improve to beat Sets.
The flop sizing is to big IMO I like to bet 1/2p (maybe even that's to big?) to induce some lighter peels especially when we will 3barrel so often. Another benefit is that we will come to the river with a higher SPR vs a wider range which would make our river bet more +EV (still check this river thou).
March 22, 2016 | 10:11 a.m.
I have a question about the hand @ 12:47:
we open As Ks Jc 9c in CO and get called Syous in the big blind.
The flop comes Qc 8h 7d
You check back this flop since there are many good turns for us.
I kind of disagree here and like betting more since I think we have to fold on so many turns when he leads.
Turn is 5c
Syous now leads for pot and you call.
I would fold this turn because:
1. Our flush draw is just J high and our hand looks like clubs so hard to get value.
2. I think it will be hard to bluff any Rivers so we basically need to improve to win the hand.
What am I missing or where is my logic off?
Thanks for a great video.
March 18, 2016 | 3:24 p.m.
Thanks for a great video,
@ 20.00, Flop: 992 2f, STP=4 and WCG bets 1600 into 4200 and OMG raises .
OMG says that he likes to find out if opponents play weak in the spot earlier in the match by raising. He also mentioning that getting in QQ + FD in this spot is not that bad by WCG.
I have a lot of problem defending against this play and my current strategy is to call with a quite wide range with almost all the hands I want to continue with in this spot. But it gets very trick on turns and I also feel like I let people get there to often with hands with decent equity that would have folded the flop vs a 3bet.
How does a "no weak" defending strategy looks at this board?
Is it better to start 3betting the flop and if so for what sizing? Click back?
I feel very lost how I should build my range here (vs a good aggressive opponent that raises a lot here)
Any comments are welcome
April 15, 2015 | 9:25 a.m.
Thanks for a excellent video, as a viewer I much prefer 2-4 tables.
21:00 Table 1,
We defend Jd Jh 5d 4c and X/C @ 8d 7d 3s, 3way
The turn is Jd and we lead for 3/4 pot vs 2 players because:
"We can handle pressure and we like to protect vs higher FDs."
I also do like a lead here but for different reasons but with close to a pot sized bet.
This one of the few hands we can lead the turn with for "value" that
is not a straight. I like to lead this hand to balance the times I hold 9Txx, 99Tx
When we have a straight here I do like to lead out since it is very hard for the other
2 players in the pot to bet without a straight and we just end up giving a lot
of free cards with a check. When I lead with my straight hands here I want a
big sizing here since our opponents knows that we have a straight here so
The river is also interesting here and the more I think about it I like X/F. Villain will
probably only raise 9T + Good redraw versus our turn lead and we block no 9 or
T. Also if we going to be value betting top set here our range is going to be
I even think we could put some 9Txx or 9TTx/99Tx in our checking range here (not sure
if the blocker hands make more sense, thoughts?) so we are not X/F this river
100%. I believe that our value betting range would also benefit from that since
it is already so strong and it is very hard for competent villains to hero
calling even versus a 1/3 pot bet.
What do you guys think?
July 31, 2014 | 10:07 a.m.
I am interested to hear what you guys think about villains play here?
PRE: He CC Ah Js Tc 5h in SB vs JNandez's BTN
FLOP: He X/R 9c 4h 3h and gets flatted
On the flop I feel like it is difficult to play with a high X/R range here because this board does not hit me that often and therefor put this hand in my X/C range.
TURN: He Bets 5s and gets called
If I decided to X/R the flop I will usually not bet this turn since the 5s does not hit our range a lot and I expect to get a decent amount of free cards when I check.
RIVER: He Pots 6h w the nutz
Also when somebody X/R the flop here and than bet into us on the turn what do we really put him on?
Do you usually expect people to bet there weak NFD hands here to lay them-self a decent price to draw with some fold equity or do we expect them to check to try to get a free card? I know it is opponent dependent but the situation comes up so infrequent so I like to hear what "go to range" we give villains we haven't play that much with in this spot.
July 30, 2014 | 10:23 a.m.
Tim: I do not think we can remove set completely but we can defiantly say that they are less likely following your logic.
When I think about his X/R range here for value it should be a lot of Ahxxx hands, all of the few set combos has, combo draws, TTP + draw and the bluff part of his range.
July 30, 2014 | 9:58 a.m.
Thanks for a great video,
@ 01:00 Table 4
We open SB vs Isildroons BB with "6s 5c 5h 4s" and the flop comes "Kc 9c 5s" (SPR: 11.5).
"I will go a head and X/R here, the pot is already big, it is a ante game and I open for pot. My hand makes a lot of sense to X/R, it's a none nutty made hand that has poor turn visibility. Also I am not blocking the "K" or the "9" making him more likely to have K9. He 3bet some KKxx pre-flop so we can't be to scared of running into a set here."
I like to know a little more how you build your range in this spot,
how you play none pairing club turns when called and
how you play vs a jam from Isildroon.
I am not sure what dynamic you have with him but in my experience I think he will have a set here at least 50% of the time when he jams:
Always jam: 99, kk, K9 + Draw (Few combos since the Kc and 9c are on the board).
Jam small % of the time: K5 + draw, wrap + FD.
Hardly ever jam: Naked K9, weaker draws.
Not sure what sizing Isildroon use here when he bet vs missed CB but I will assume 100 and I also assume the you are going to pot X/R and I made the following calculation based on my assumptions.
2046 / 177 = 11.55 SPR on the Flop
He bets 100 = 177 + (100x2) = 377 / 1946 = 5.1 SPR after he bet 100
We Pot = 377 + (377 x 2) = 1131 / (1946 - 377) = 1.38 SPR after we X/R POT
1131 + (1569x2)= 4269 / 1569 = 36.7 % is the Equity we need to call his jam.
No set hands we have 55% EQ = (4269 x 0.55) - 1569 = +779 USD
vs Set hands we have 12% EQ = (4269 x 0.12) - 1569 = -1057
He needs to have no set hands = 1057 / (779 + 1057) = 57.6% of the time for us to make the call.
vs Call with SPR 1.38 on the turn
What is our line on a none pairing club turn?
What is our line on a K turn?
Any comment on my calculations or thought process or any of my questions are welcome.
July 29, 2014 | 9:36 a.m.
I have a question regarding the 2 last chapters of the Power Point presentation (13:00 - 16:30)
If I understand it correct "Value Checking" frequency and the CB frequency should go up the dryer the board is. I really like this strategy against weak - medium strong opponent but for me it feels wrong doing this against stronger opponents.
I feel that our CB range is going to be too weak and the X/B range too strong on a board that is very hard to hit in the first place. How can we continue to put a lot of pressure on our opponent over the next street in a somewhat balanced way when we have weaken / polarized our CB range so much on the flop?
I especially struggle to understand this on the dry Axx boards. In the meantime I will continue with my close to 100% CB range on the dry Axx boards...
July 17, 2014 | 11:36 p.m.
@ 28.50, Slayer flats A992, gets 3Bet (small) by BB who makes a 60% CB @ AJ2 2f into 2 players. Slayer raise/folds the flop with top and bottom here.
Why is it better/whats the reasoning for turning this hand into a "bluff" compared to the more standard call down / use your position?
July 17, 2014 | 12:53 p.m.
@ 7.20, Slayer opens CO,gets flatted by SB and CB AAJ5 @ Q98r (+BD Nut FD). I like to have this hand in my X-back range. I think it is slightly to strong to be bet / folding the flop here and I do not think we should have a very high CB % in this spot since our range will be too weak.
What do you guys think?
July 17, 2014 | 12:08 p.m.
@ 11:35 You fold 3d 6d 8c Jc vs what seams to be a lose CO (pot) open. I was in an argument with my friend in a similar spot yesterday and my opinion is:
You have to play this hand be either flatting (my prefer) or 3 betting. Yes your hand is weak but you will connect with so many flops and you will take away many pots in position. It is a problem that the FDs are low but you are in position and will figure out if they are good or not. If you get 3bet from the blinds we are closing the action and have a easy call in a decent situation.
What is this the bottom of your Calling range in this situation with this type of hands?
Where is my logic wrong if this is a fold?
July 17, 2014 | 12:51 a.m.
Great Video Odd,
I am interested in your game plan for low board in Later Position scenarios. In the video you opened AsTs84s from CO and got flatted by N Channing OTB (100bb effective stacks). The flop came 246r and you argue that this Flop should be checked a lot and in a perfect world this board should get checked down a lot.
My strategy here is to CB 100% here and the majority of players I play against play with a very high CB on this board. My reasoning for doing so is that I think our range is stronger than Channings (not done PPT). Channing flatting range here does not include as many low combinations as our CO stealing range and we are also going to have many more AA/KK combos here that we can bet twice with here.
I find that I get a lot of folds in this situation and the only situation where I could understand your strategy is vs somebody that is going to raise this board at a very high % but I don't find that almost anybody is doing that. Since they know that they rep so thin and our range should be stronger than theirs.
So I like to know more about your reasoning for not playing with a high CB % here and what benefits your strategy has.
Aug. 1, 2013 | 11:20 a.m.
My toughts when I played this hand was:
On the flop I don't X/R the hand becuse it is a non nut draw with no pair. I also think I am behind a getting in range on the flop and that the turn is going to be difficult to play on many cards. On addition to that I think that there will be a lot of bluffing oppertunities later in the hand if I chose to call flop / turn since my hand is going to be disguised.
On the river I chose to lead out becuse I think that the river is going to go X/X too often since villain is go to have showdown value with as weak as A7xx IMO. I also think we look weak when we lead the river here and I see many opponents snap call any 2pair here and also make hero calls with 1 pair.
June 25, 2013 | 7:44 p.m.
I been away on holiday so I have not been able to participate as much as I like here lately. Anyway I am back now and going to write a big update now taking about my game in general.
I have been playing a lot of HU in the past but the last few years I have been concentrating on 6max play. Most of my HU play now are when I am trying to start new tables or when I am looking to "challenge myself" as I did in this match.
My stats this year are the following for HU play: (12k hands, many hands vs short stacks)
VPIP 3Bet 4Bet / CB Raise CB
SB 96% - 14% 74% 25%
BB 56% 21% - 67% 23%
My stats for the match was: (300 hands)
VPIP 3Bet 4Bet / CB Raise CB
SB 100% - 4% 70% 14%
BB 55% 15% - 90% 16%
My general preflop strategy when facing a tough opponent is to try to deny them to play in position especially big pots. To accomplish this I try to not 3bet them a lot preflop and induce them to play oop by minopening the button.
In general I feel very good about my pre flop game apart from that I like to see myself defend slightly wider. I think 3 betting 15% against this villain is good and do not want to go much wider vs him.
The pre flop folds and the TTP on Monotone board that Phil has discussed are pure mistakes on my parts and not a part of an overall strategy. I am not sure if the are caused by the fast pace of the match or if I was distracted at the time but it was very surprising to see that I did so many in such a short period of time.
My CB range is as Phil has described in the videos and I feel like I don't have enough set strategies to fall back on. For the rest of the year I am going to try to figure out how my betting range / x-back range is roughly going to look on different boards texture with different ranges.
My logic for X-back now has basically been:
I have a hand that is in the bottom of my range + I don't CB this board 100% = X-Back
My logic for betting is:
I have a good hand + I can call a raise = CB
I feel like I many times end up betting here because I don't know what to do like in the when I had AKTx @ QT5 K when I 3 bet preflop. I also feel very unsure about what sizing to use and I am not sure what questions to ask myself to get it right.
I am also curious to how much of the concepts for flop CBing we have learned in this video translates into the turn double barreling range.
I have been a big fan of x/r the river for a long time but as of lately start to change my strategy to leading out more hands on the river. My reasoning for that is to get more value and to get more bluff opportunities at a cheaper price.
June 25, 2013 | 10:38 a.m.
Very nice analyze Phil.
You are spot on about my CB range. I have boards where I CB 100% like the Axx boards and on most board textures I put the bottom of my range in my X-back range or x/f range. I also think I worry too much about getting bluff raise and therefore I check back some paired / lockdown boards.
When I feel like my image is too bad I am willing to give up any board texture like the A82r.
I only play with one betsize unless I am trying to set up a all in bet on the river or bet 3 streets with smaller stacks. In the hand when I turn the nut flush after getting X/R on the flop you say that you like having 2 sizes, what sizes do you recommend?