Icarus's avatar


1 points

Well, (if only for the sake of a fruitful discussion), let's assume that postflop you are not certain that villains are significantly worse than you.

You say that you "prefer playing super tight". What does that translate into specific ranges? Top 5% hands, Top 10%, Top 20%, Top 30%?. Do you only raise (even hands that are considered standard but lose a lot of their value when multiway: i.e. 9987ds, 8765ds)?

Aug. 19, 2016 | 4:16 p.m.

Thanks Papinoff!
Agree with overlimping trashy Axs as they have nut potential even in multiway pots. But aren't we asking for trouble with middle pocket pairs as 4/5 handed on the flop we have the risk of ending on the bad end of a set over set situation (or against straigths/flushes when they are possible) more often than not when the pot starts getting any big?

Aug. 19, 2016 | 4:09 p.m.

The title kind of says it all. But let me be a little more specific. Imagine the following 6-max game:

  • Table with many very loose passive players:
    • most villains play almost every hand, mostly by limping (say the fold bottom 20%-30%)
    • villains (mostly) do not fold to preflop raises, to isolation raises or to 3-bets
    • most villains cold call behind to isolation raises or 3bets
    • As a consequence, all flops are multiway, most of them 4 or 5 handed!
    • Postflop some villains play fit or fold (and understand relative hand strength), others are more sticky/stationy and some others stabby if it looks like nobody wants the pot

So, given the above conditions:
- In general, what ranges/type of hands would you play? What VPIP/PFR/3bet would you expect to have?
- How much are you tightening up with respect to your default/no reads play?
- Do you still mainly enter pots by raising (ISO, 3-bets, open raise) or do you develop a wide limping/overlimping preflop range given that nobody folds preflop?
- Where do your expect your money/edge to come from in a heavily-raked table like the one described above?

In case the above is still too vague/general, imagine you are in the CO, both UTG and HJ limp before you:
-What is your iso range ($4b5 / $3b10i / $fi15 / $fi30, other)? (please remember that you will very likely get cold call behind by one or more players and the limpers won't fold preflop, so the flop will end up 4 or 5-way most of the times)
-What is your overlimping range if any?

Aug. 17, 2016 | 7:02 p.m.

I think I tend to agree with Thomca. Somebody will have a straight here over 25%, which means that JJJ is not a 3-street (bet/bet/bet) value hand. Add to this the fact that we are OOP 4-way and I think I rather check flop to try to make this a 2-street game (if checks through) as well as to widen villains ranges/induce them to semibluff/lighter calls on later streets.

As played on the flop, I would now checkcall the turn. Not much to protect/fear and again we cannot reasonably expect to get called by worse if we just go bet/bet/bet

Aug. 8, 2016 | 5:37 p.m.

The only problem with the above logic is that KJo does not have a 30% equity versus the Nash calling range. Therefore it is a clear -EV shove (around negative 37bb/100 in fact). This is easily confirmed using HRC.

Out of curiosity, how did you obtain the GTO calling range?

April 15, 2014 | 10:38 p.m.

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