qualle7's avatar


28 points

I asked punter, the pio dev, a similar question.
His answer in the 2+2 thread:
In general the more, the better. I think you want around 40 flops to have a good outline and around 60-70 to have reasonably precise solution.
As of right now we recommend using those subsets:

I tested 74 preflop subsets for some ranges BB vs RFI and its ok(compared to 133 subsets). You will see +ev hands and some who are maybe like -0.002 in one and +0.001 or 0 in the other. So I am guessing you can go even lower for general ideas regarding preflop ranges.

Jan. 25, 2017 | 12:56 a.m.

I think there could be many ways you can go about this.
A big mistake you can make in my point of view is by making certain changes to your strategy/ranges and not realizing what it does to other parts of your range.
E.g. you want to increase your turn/river aggression by cbetting more. I guess you mean cbetting more on the flop as well?
By doing that, you could hurt your flop checking range alot. Now you have no bluffs when the flop went check/check. Or your checking range becomes weaker. And so on.

Keep in mind, it doesn`t mean you play bad when you are passive. For example when your opponent folds alot (air) vs cbets, but when checked to he will bet 100% and now you can exploit him better by check/calling or check/raising.

My advise would be to work on your overall plan a littile bit more and then you will not fall into the trap of changing 1 or 2 stats and by that hurting the rest of your game.

The reason I mention this is, that I did similiar things to improve my game, when I wasnt ready for it. I wanted to change my folding to 3bet stats. So I tried to change that by calling more (this can hurt you really badly, especially oop). After a while I checked how I did and I lost alot in 3bet pots by that. More than I would by just folding to the 3bet. I didnt work on my 3bet game enough(floating/stealing more postflop, 4betting more preflop).
And in the end it wasn`t even the right thing to do. Why? Because you are not getting exploited by players who 3bet you 2-4% :)
They will lose money in other ways, not when they have Aces or Kings in 3bet pots.

Now, when you just want to change your aggression stats, thats easy.
Bet and checkraise more! :)

Jan. 23, 2017 | 9:50 p.m.

Difficult questions...my advise would be to figure out what works best for you personally.
Everybody is different, so what works for one doesnt have to work for someone else. And we all start from different premises. It seems to me you might want to change to much all at once and after a while become overwhelmed because you are not used to it. At least thats how I tried to do it and it didnt really work, because I wasnt used to it.
Basicly you can`t expect to be 100% perfect all the time, especially when you want to improve/change in many different areas of your life.

Maybe start with some small changes and then add some more after 1 week. Make these changes/goals achievable, but still challenging. And don`t set winnings as goals for your session, use hours or hands played (control your quality of play as well).

As far as long term motivation or goals go, that is something you have to find out for yourself.
Don`t forget to take a break from time to time and enjoy life with your friends/family. Otherwise you might get burned out.

Edit: Just have seen Leszek Badurowicz posted a video regarding this topic, maybe there are some tips for you.

Jan. 21, 2017 | 11:51 p.m.

So the general idea how to find the BB ranges is correct?(use a 100% range for BB and then deduct -EV hands until you maximize Big Blinds EV?)

Btw, regarding geometrical sizes. I would then use 1e for the river? Or doesn`t it matter because you are all in anyway and could just use like 100%(anythink above ZenFishs % depending on potsize?)

Dec. 22, 2016 | 12:22 a.m.

Yes I watched some videos on youtube and I guess you are gtorakeback :)
Thanks for explaining where I can find your response.

I am trying to find the ranges for BBvsRFI. So how and what I should defend against 2bb/2.5bb/3bb etc. I thought it would be the easiest/most accurate sims I could run, because there are no other players left to act. Of course the RFI ranges are only my assumptions.

Dec. 22, 2016 | 12:04 a.m.

Ok, I am trying to figure out the preflop solver. So far I am working with very few flop subsets so I can run them on my pc. Had a public cloud server on OVH, but dedicated servers are much cheaper. Especially when you want to run sims for a couple of weeks.

I will test the geometric bet sizes when I run the real sims, but for now I need to figure out what I am doing first. So I just used some default ones from the developers.

I am not sure I do the right think to figure out the preflop solver. Maybe you can find some mistakes I did.
First I thought I will try to figure out EPvsBB, because it is a HU pot. I give EP some range and BB 100%. Then I build the tree, run the sim and calculate the results. Afterwards I check what combos are ~0ev or less and remove those. I am a little bit generous with these combos, because I assume my calculations are not very accurate to begin with.
Afterwards I run the sim with the new range and check weither BB EV is bigger than before. In case it is, I repeat it. Is this a correct way?

I have seen some ideas with running aggregated analysis, looking for -EV hands in excel and then removing them. For example I raise to 2bb on the button and need to defend against a 8bb 3bet. So I need to defend hands with +~6bb EV. Would this be more accurate?

Dec. 21, 2016 | 11:13 p.m.

I don't know how many tables you are playing, but maybe playing to many is a reason for autopilot as well.

Dec. 3, 2016 | 10:09 a.m.

I have a tip for you: watch Nick Howard on twitch and youtube.
It's free and it seems that it might help you alot.

Maybe that helps with your hands:
1st hand: Why do you think he would fold top pair?
2nd hand: Why would you reraise the flop to fold all his bluff(incase he had any to begin with...)?
3rd hand: let me guess you bet flop and turn and then out of nowhere villian donkbets all in on the river...?

Btw tilt is normal for every person, you have to learn to control it and when you can't, just take a break and leave the table. Go for a walk and go back to the tables when you are able to think clearly.

Dec. 2, 2016 | 9:50 p.m.

Ok, interesting and good to know. Thanks for explaining it.
Seems like there is no way around solvers nowadays :)

Nov. 30, 2016 | 8:14 a.m.

True, but the math is still the same. Is it wrong? Correct me when I am wrong.

I thought the idea was to build a 3bet-4bet-5bet range vs different kind of RFI % and an unknown player. I thought it was similar to crev, but you have to build the range by yourself using math and a calculator.

Nov. 29, 2016 | 10:42 p.m.

I am not sure you have that much foldequity on the flop, I doubt MP is betting QQ vs 2 players on an A-high board, why should he (remember BB is the 3better and he checked)?

And wouldn't MP be more likely to 4bet QQ preflop (ofc depending on BB, but being 3way with a bad relative position doesn't seem so appealing either)

Regarding turn play after calling I am not sure you can make general assumptions. You have to see what turn card comes, how much he bets (if he bets), what is BB doing etc.

Nov. 29, 2016 | 10:07 a.m.

You always want to pick the most +EV line. GTO is only interesting vs unknown or good/balanced players.

Nov. 29, 2016 | 9:55 a.m.

I think you are mostly right about your preflop asumptions, although he seens to be very tight preflop he could still open like 30% on the button.

In general I would try to see weither or not villian is raising position aware.
60 hands is not much for a samplesize, but you could already get an idea for this.

Nov. 29, 2016 | 9:52 a.m.

I think these articles might help you with creating your default ranges.


Otherwise you could run simulations with CREV etc.

Nov. 29, 2016 | 9:22 a.m.

I can't help you with PT4, but maybe it is similar to HM2. There you can create an alias for different players.

I have a question regarding what you want to accomplish with that...I mean every player plays different, so even when you have an alias for 1 type of player (lets say VPIP 22 PFR 20 3bet 8) you cant automaticly assume they all play the same from the small blind.

So what do you want the alias for?

As you have realized it seems people are playing reasonable preflop and bad postflop, so your edge would most likely come from postflop.
Of course you can't ignore preflop leaks, but usually postflop leaks are more expensive.

Nov. 28, 2016 | 9:19 a.m.

Ok thanks a lot. This should be fun :D
Its just so expensive..:(

Nov. 28, 2016 | 12:42 a.m.

Haha, good tip :D

What do you mean by using geometrical betsizing and four for preflop etc.?
Four to get it in preflop? Or 4 because of preflop, flop, turn and river? (like 66% cbet each street)

Edit: Does your cloud version have less functions than the normal one on your pc?

Thanks for your help,I will just have to test it. :)

Nov. 28, 2016 | 12:17 a.m.

Thank you for the detailed answer, they helped alot.
Especially the detailed part about constructing ranges :)

So maybe I have to rent a pc then, after trying how it works with my pc.
I was fearing they were a little bit optimistic with the RAM you need, becasue they wrote 16GB should be plenty. And I wasn't sure weither or not that included preflop as well.

When I rent a cloud pc, shoud I aim for more RAM or more CPU power
(or both)? Because I checked OHV and they have one with 16 cores(2.4GHz) and 240GB RAM, almost have the price of one with 32 cores(3.1GHz) and 120GB RAM.

Do you think the public cloud would be safe enough?

Edit: Oh I have another question regarding your blueprint. Do you have any idea why many good players have way loser stats than "The Scripture"?
Is it because of noone is playing enough back at them preflop and are they abusing weaker players or do they have a edge postflop?

Nov. 27, 2016 | 10:33 p.m.

I think that it is correct to be careful postflop. Easy example would be when they call only with top5% of hands and you 3bet 100%, their range will be so much stronger postflop that you can't really exploit them.

Regarding exploitation you could add some hero specific stats to your HUD, so you can see when they try to play back at you. Although I would think it will take a a while for you to get any useful samplesize in a big Zoom pool.

Nov. 27, 2016 | 9:01 p.m.

Hi ZenFish,
I have read through some of your posts about the piosolver and am I correct that you have the edge version?
If so, could you tell me what kind of computer I would need for it to run for preflop solving?
And do you think it helps enough to be worth it compared to the pro version, or maybe you can upgrade later.

Thanks in advance :)

Nov. 27, 2016 | 8:55 p.m.

I think it is very player dependent. For someone to give you advice you need to give more background information.
e.g. your skilllevel, how much do you want to invest etc.

Nov. 27, 2016 | 8:46 p.m.

Comment | qualle7 commented on preflop game

For starting out you can use the pokerjuice preflop ranges, although I am not sure how good they are.

Nov. 24, 2016 | 3:15 a.m.

Comment | qualle7 commented on Most useful videos

Did you watch the Tom Colwell videos?
He explains many basic concepts.

Leszek Badurowicz makes very good videos as well, well prepared and detailed.
Although those are only essential videos.

Nov. 24, 2016 | 3:12 a.m.

When you need some help to find videos for specific topics you can use the learning path, although many videos are for elite.

Nov. 3, 2016 | 11:14 p.m.

Comment | qualle7 commented on [PLO20] AKJTds 3way

Hm, I got a question regarding preflop: Does MP usually pot and have aces and without aces raises lower? Otherwise your statement as why this should be a 3bet is pretty speculative.
I am not saying not to 3bet this hand, but rather to be careful about assumptions like that.

On the flop the SPR~2.5 so I think you need about 42% (I hope my calculation is correct)
Well and now I would try to construct a range for villian, do you have any preflop stats on him for this position?
I am assuming he is using PJ RFI 25% minus any aces, because he didn't 4bet.
syntax:(!RRR:18%6h,AA:20%6h,KK:18%6h,QQ:19%6h,JJ:19%6h,AK!RR:19%6h,Axxy!RR:30%6h,!RR![6-]:25%6h,OORR:(45%6h!JJ+),$0G:70%6h,$1G:50%6h,(AQT9-, AKJ9-, AQJ9-):42%6h,(AKJ8-, AQ98-, AQJ8-):25%6h,(KQJ-,KQT-,KJT-)!RR:24%6h,(KQ9-,KJ9-)!RR:20%6h,(4556+,4456+,6654+):50%6h,(3556+,4457+,4476+,4463+,6643+,6653+):28%6h)$nt!aa
note: unfortunatly I think I didn't remove all aces with !aa at the end.(67684combos - 6961 combos = should be 60723, but the syntax contains 60916 combos)

With these asumptions I got heroes Equity on the flop against villians whole range at ~68%.
Unfortunatly I don't own pokerjuice and I am not sure how to go on from this point to the turn. I think you can minimize villians KK because you have a king and remove almost all K8/K4, because I think he would raise them on the flop.

I would bet pot on the flop and turn, because I think it would be difficult for me to get away from it on any turncard. Maybe when a Q comes on the turn...?

FYI: I am not sure about my calculation and assumptions, because I am a beginner and it is one of my first attempts to do a calculation.

Sept. 16, 2016 | 10:20 p.m.

Comment | qualle7 commented on VPIP/PFR/3bet %

Honestly those stats by itself are not so important in my opinion.
e.g. it doesn't help when you play 50/40/25 but are losing alot bb/100.
When I look back at playing NLHE, those stats will naturally get better/more agressive the more you play and develop your game.

When you really think you are to passiv preflop you should check your preflop ranges aka RFI, 3bet etc. And by doing that the stats will look better, but keep in mind pickung +EV spots is more important than having good looking stats :)
One thing that might stop you from playing as good/agressiv as you can is playing to many tables and thus playing on autopilot. So maybe thats something that you can address.

And finally to answer your question: 36/27/7

Sept. 16, 2016 | 9:40 p.m.

Yes, I am not sure I would call this hand preflop vs unknown/good players.
But probably vs weak players.

Sept. 16, 2016 | 7:53 p.m.

I think the stackoff on the flop 3way is fine, too.
But I am not sure I would flat this hand, except if MP is weak postflop or you have bad and/or passive blinds.
I am no expert and not sure about this hand pre, so would like to hear other opinions on this :)

Sept. 16, 2016 | 5:02 p.m.

Sry for the misunderstanding.
3rd and 4th sentence have nothing to do with each other.
I meant some player ignore the flop and cbet 100%. Then you can check shove your range, to get some value from their bluffs.

Leading the flop was referring to other players, who check sometimes.

July 15, 2016 | 4:23 a.m.

Better aim higher than you need for a living, you never know how long online poker will be around.

July 14, 2016 | 12:23 p.m.

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