brummell's avatar


5 points

Hi was wanting advice on a hand I played against a friend recently in the 5/10 Plo game in Barcelona and wondering if the play was a mistake or optimal, I told him his move extremely fishy and he argued it was a good move:

Were all sitting at around 250 BBs deep, straddled to 20 hand, he reraises 100 from the blind with 3c4c5s7s, very tight player reraises 300 with AsQs9dAd, another guy flat calls with 2d7d2c7h, I flat call with 10hJhKhQs, other blind calls with Ks9s6dKc, and my friend reraises 2000 all in, and pot turns into a 5 handed all in lotto fest.

Is it a better move to just call the 300 on his part? or shove the 2000 - Obviously looking at the cards he is actually in decent equity shape
however I find it extremely fishy as its easy for his cards to be very dominated, and I hardly think he has fold equity even though he argues shoving he can end up playing heads up vs the AAxx hand with the dead money, what do you guys think? Brilliant move or mistake?

July 20, 2019 | 9:58 a.m.

Online i played for 4 years on pokerstars and bossmedia mainly playing 1-2 and 2-4 both high low plo and plo winning solidly 8-10bb/100 with some stabs at 3-6 games.

Online the level was alot higher overall player quality wise for sure, that with the regulation of online poker in my country are what led me to live casino games.

My reason for preflop 3 betting and raising is that generally speaking my hand selection is alot better than the hands most of the live players are playing - and plo thats something that punishes you greatly unless you hit like a maniac. Perhaps being less aggresive preflop you could reduce the variance, but still youd be missing opportunities - surely its better to go all in with an AAxx hand heads up or vs 2 players than waiting for the flop vs 5 players.

Like you say though i really need to think of strategies to lower the variance and improve the ev line.......

June 25, 2015 | 3:27 p.m.

Well the game is 9 handed 5-10 or 5-5 with a small min buyin 500 or 250 respectively.

Since January my stats would be -8.629€ in the 5-10 winning in 18 sessions out of 60 sessions. And +11.266,00€ for the 5-5 game winning 35 sessions out of 72 sessions for a total of 566 played hours.

The players are basically the same in both the 5-10 and the 5-5; but you do get a few more hit and runners who will nit and try to double up hit and run in the 5-5, so i would say the 5-10 is a better game by far.

Its an extremely passive game were most players would have a 1-4% 3 bet range and 90% of times only 3 bet AAxx hands unless on tilt. Most of the players hardly ever raising at all preflop and just limping to see the flop. Most of the players are of very low quality except for a few foreigners mainly.

I basically buyin for 500 and play pretty tight aggressive and will try to 3 bet most suited high AKQ10 type hands as well as a few suited rundowns. I read Slot's book a long time ago maybe i should reread it, however youre right in pointing out that you dont really have much fold equity when pushing preflop or heavily 3 betting even if its a quality AAxx hand as they will call generally and youll be commited if youre all in or have less than 1 pot size bet on the flop which i suppose raises the variance even more.

Overall ive run bad for the entire year being in bad situations most of the time and loosing most of the big pots - but Im honestly amazed at loosing 19 sessions in a row in such a game and it makes me wonder just how big and long can a downswing be in live PLO.

June 25, 2015 | 9:14 a.m.

Well so far 9 months breaking even unable to make a profit - This month ive managed to loose 19 days in a row not winning 1 day, having a downswing which seams like witchcraft in an already horrible year. I just keep getting middle set against top set ( happened 10 times in last 3 days ), continually loosing all in preflop AAxx hands, unlucky coolers and horrible bad beats when im ahead - the only way i win a hand is if everybody folds before showdown.

The game is seriously very soft 80% of the players are not good players or average at best but i just cant show a winning hand. Variance in life PLO seams huge but can it be so huge?

Its rather demoralizing.

June 23, 2015 | 9:08 a.m.

Thanks alot for the feed back, really interested in hearing the experience more veteran players have had with plo live game variance.

Feb. 17, 2015 | 11:32 p.m.

Ive been playing mainly live PLO 5/5 and 5/10 for the last 18 months making decent profit even though i wasnt running particularily well in around 220 sessions having found these games to have alot more value than online.

However lately its being harsh and for the past 5 months and for roughly the last 100 sessions ive been unable to make a positive result fighting to break even for those months and fighting various 5-7 day consecutive loosing streaks were i just cant win a hand.

Im curious to the experience more experienced live game players have had in loosing streaks and PLO variance; whats the longest theyve been not managing to make a profit and how normal this is amongst PLO live players.

Feb. 16, 2015 | 11:22 a.m.

Ive been playing 5/10 live 9 handed lately and the other day i had a spot were im not sure if my play was optimal.

Im sitting on a 2600 stack and i raise from the dealer with AKJ2 double suited clubs and spades i raise preflop to 50 and get 6 callers; flop comes 9h Ks 3h - they all check back to me and i opt to check to give myself a free card as these players really like to check raise. Turn comes a very good card making the board 9h Ks 3h 4s giving me a backdoor nut flush and gutshot. Big blind who is a very loose player bets 200 into the pot and a middle player calls i reraise to 600 and he reraises all in 2200......and i fold. Do you think my reraise to 600 was a mistake? i was trying to raise my hands value on the pot thinking i had alot of odds to improve my hand for the river considering small two pairs or draws might be in his range and thinking i could bluff alot of rivers pretending i had a set.

Aug. 10, 2014 | 5:36 p.m.

Hi Guys i recently had a hand in a 5/10€ - 9 handed casino game that i keep wondering if i played it correctly. Guy raises 40 preflop and i call from dealer with Ad7d8c10c; with a 2200€ stack behind me, 3 other players call also.

Flop comes Jh10d8s - raiser bets 120 into the pot and the 2 other players call i procceed to call on the dealer.

Turn comes makes the board Jh10d8s9d - raiser checks, player 2 checks and player 3 bets 620 into the pot; player 3 is a complete donkey and an awful player i think he most likely has a higher straight then me but i choose to check as i have position.

River makes the board Jh10d8s9d8h and player 3 goes all in for 1600€ instantly and i insta call getting scooped when he shows JJQ7 - What do you think about my insta call? is it a very bad move considering player 3 is an awful player - what would the optimal play for the hand be in your opinion? thanks alot :)

April 28, 2014 | 10:13 p.m.

Over the past year ive played around 100k plo 1/2 6 handed game hands, the result so far has been only 4k profit with an EV expected value difference of 3k more profit - not really a great result for an entire years work....


Id like to ask a few questions to the experienced online plo players.

1: How many hands should i be playing per month? My best month i managed to have a 10k upswing and actually played 40k hands, the next month i had an 8k downswing in just about 15k hands - the rest of the months i only played about 10k hands as i didnt run too good and would stop playing for the day if i lost around 600€.

 2: How big is the variance and swings i should expect ? Im trying to do a very rigid administration were ill stop playing for the day if i loose 600€ - Does this matter? or should i focus more on playing more hands even if i loose 1500-2000e in 1 day if im playing properly?

 3: One day in which the tables were specially good being 2/5 instead of the usual 1/2 - i ended up loosing 5000€ against awful players having an EV expected value difference of 6000€ profit in about 1600 hands - Should i have stopped playing earlier that day even though i played correctly the game was good and i just kept having huge bad beats as the EV for the day was positive? ( when i review the session i see no gameplay mistakes worth mentioning )

4 : How big is the bankroll i should need for these games and how big are the swings i should expect to win or loose in a very loose swingy 1/2 6 handed Plo game with 3-4 tabbles running ?


Thanks for any input from experienced players


Oct. 24, 2013 | 10:05 a.m.

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