I like 3310/84 more in this spot, we have ~45% chance of boating compare to
~80% chance of flushing, but often when flush fails the hand most likley disqualifies giving oponent a freeroll and extra points for scooping.
The pair set up though if fails the hand some times other times draws to 3 of a kind 2 pair full house or quads (all of these need to be quantified in order to make a fair comparation with the flush set up) and allows strong hands to be build up top easier than the flush one does, another reason is the flexibility of the hand and our 10 kicker is bigger than his kicker for when we hit,some other times we will see opponent taking a gamble we might take the safe route of just qualifing the hand collecting our royalty points with no risk and scooping when he faults.
It looks also easier to build the hand in to a big pair up top one starting with the bottom pair set up.
The abc app makes so many obvious mistakes people should beat it at around 1.5 -2 points per hand.
best of luck
April 23, 2015 | 2:56 p.m.
I will like to get some advice from RIO poker community on what do they like best from OFC apps.
Do people feel safe playing relatively high stacks in todays available and often controversial OFC apps.
Please help, I love the game.
April 22, 2015 | 8:23 p.m.
I’m defending Jasons play, here is a point breakdown
888JJ/333KK/T54 gets 6+12+0=18 royalty points.
When we win both bottom and middle but loose top we score 19 points we will scoop when opponent faults then we will get another 1+1+1 +3 points(3 points awarded for scooping) we will score total of 24 points.
888JJ/333T5/KK gets 6+2+8=16 royalty points we will be more likely to scoop so add 1+1+1+3=6 points then we figure to get 22 points altogether when scooping is successful .
on the other hand if we fail to scoop we will likely score 17 points we will some times lose a street as our hand has no locks,namely small full house on bottom small set on middle KK up top will lose to AA some time since all the aces are available to our opponents.Every time we don’t scoop we score 2 points less. So as you can see putting KK up top is not the clear move it might depend on our opponents if they are aggressive and more likely to fault should go for 888JJ/333KK/T54 to maximize our points when opponents do fail or make a hand we can not scoop either way.
on very rare occasions when our opponent makes a monster hand our hand is more protected against a scoop with full house on middle.
So i don’t think Jason make a mistake here but i think he is a weak ofc player for playing 3flush/QQ/QQ instead of 4flush/QQQ and of course for mis setting a fl among other things.
hope i explained my position here open to critic
Feb. 7, 2015 | 6:01 a.m.
scooping is worth 3 points what about two points we give up when our opponent faults and when we fail to scoop anyway our bottom full house is small so is not a clear cut with AA is close we should never go for it with QQ, no reason to go for the underdog
Feb. 6, 2015 | 6:54 a.m.
Great video thank you for being the only pro to make ofc videos but i have a bit of critique.
1- it is not clear QQ up top was the play for Jason you and rengon think it is and both defend it as the best move, the other option was quite attractive as well, a very nice 4flush with QQQ on middle still has a lot of chances of getting to fl and less chances of failing on the other hand QQQ in a middle is the nuts most of the time,though i can’t quantify this neither can you.
2-looks like you always play with the goal of getting the most fl yet we score with points in this game so please try to notice the difference and/or accept that the best play is unknown a lot of times and don’t call any moves standard.
Thank you very much for the video.
Feb. 4, 2015 | 10:30 a.m.
It might even be such a good game it gives people different kind of feelings all the time.
I some times feel hopeless ,no matter what i do or could have done i get scooped and crushed by big and small hands for what it seems extended periods of time.
But other times i feel in control everything comes based on my plan, it must feel crushing in the other side now to my opponent whoo is usually one of my good poker friends.
Like all poker,some times we are the windshield other times we are the bug.
Gambly is undefined, whats the right amount of gamble to qualify, it could be what we think it is.
Dec. 5, 2014 | 3:45 a.m.
It seems difficult because it is a difficult game.
Whoever think is easy is going to loose bad in this game.
I think you are on the wright track to learn this game my friend provided you love the game.
Is one of the best games invented lately it might even surpass some other poker games very soon, half of poker players play it already.
I hope other people jump in to this discussion and it would be nice to know what our poker pros think about the game,they might have a very valuable different view.
Dec. 3, 2014 | 10:08 p.m.
It will be nice to have more thoughts and ideas but we are on our own when making decisions of what to do especially with our first draw, We should be very careful when we hear somebody who claims he knows the perfect set up on some difficult hands and on some deceptively easy ones, is likely he is wrong because nobody can prove anything,(oops i argued that my set up is best many times) everything is a hunch as in collective intelligence decision making system.
The other think is a question, how do you define a good player?
I played about 20 opponents so far and find a collective mistake people make is when they don’t have wining more points as primary goal.because is deceptively easy to think that going for fantasy land is the way to score more points most of the time.finding the real line is hard if not impossible.
Dec. 3, 2014 | 4:50 a.m.
Yes an all of your arguments but think about it 10% of 10 an average pineapple hand is 1 point per hand is to much to risk and what happen when you foul you lose on average 10 points . and is not like the x/4flush is les valuable, is still pretty strong on both streets on the next draw you can direct the middle to a flush or straight draw some times and that is nice.
Mathematically impossible to prove the best way yet nobody can.
Logic and practice are the only tools available and some rough %math with no much regard for strategy.
Dec. 3, 2014 | 4:28 a.m.
When first to act I always take the 4 flush even when the pair is AA,
The hand does have some advantages despite loosing the pair in the middle like
the middle hand gains straight and flush draw possibilities both valuable for the double royalty points the middle rewards.But the biggest advantage we forget is the much higher fouling rate of three flush with one of our flush already dead is like 20%
compare to 10% of the four flush there is a 10% difference, there is nothing we will do to make up for that much with our pair,the only exceptions i will make are in position preferably when my flush outs are all life + my pair is big like AA or KK +opponent draws the bottom hand to a non flush like pair or straight draw. I like to have all 3 conditions meet to split 4 flush and still i think I’m erring on the side of to much aggression.
I wanna vomit when i bust a hand that could otherwise score a lot of points had i been little bit less greedy.
Though i can’t prove any of these, they look like the most reasonable things to do.
I will be curious to see what other people think, I’m afraid i could be completely wrong and proven to be the donkey again.
Dec. 3, 2014 | 4:05 a.m.
Hi xaxu here is what i think about third hand
Setting our hands with the best chance of getting to fl is not necessary the best way to play though it could be true many times, is not always the case.in this case Q/K/457 is playing against a hand with a nearly sure flush in the bottom, why give up the bottom with straight draw, if we make a flush we are likely to make the better one.
In the end player with most points wins, so finding a way to make more points is what we should do, getting to fl should be a tool for making more points not the goal itself.
Is obvious but forgotten many times and becomes expensive when playing for real money.
So Q/K/457 does not look very attractive other options look better but nobody can prove anything yet, all there is to base opening decisions is logic practice and experience but no science. good luck!
Nov. 18, 2014 | 8:35 p.m.
On 54:00 though we don’t have a easy hand starting with a 3 got shot straight on the bottom is not very appealing for some reasons
1 our hand is capped to straight on the bottom therefore easy to beat setting up scoop scenarios.
2 our straight is not easy to make either since it is gut shot
It looks like we chasing fl giving up a lot in the process.
7/104/A8 looks safe with all the options open.
7/A8/104 if we wanna gamble a little , on both these options we still have fl possibilities
there is still a ton of high cards yet to come, though our main goal is to win more points fl should be a tool not the goal itself. I don’t know the wright way either so who knows?
There are a lot of other spots where i respect your moves and i think your video
is of great value, there are things to learn for everybody so thank you very much for that.
Nov. 18, 2014 | 11:13 a.m.
On 50:44 K up top looks risky since a 6 is gone is gonna be hard to make better than KK on the middle to make our hand look good, is this the common way to play a K in that spot between high stakes players? Has anybody proven that to be the better way?
sry to many questions thanks
Nov. 18, 2014 | 10:54 a.m.
Hi Jen here is another spot on 28:20 KKJ draw I like better Kh on bottom for the immediate flush and K up top for some reasons
1. making flush we immediately qualify
2. our flush will win the bottom very often with J kicker if our opponent makes his flush
3 we are not necessary giving up on fl there is still KAAAQQ unaccounted for though our chances are not great,our final goal is not fl,is getting more points, even though that seems very obvious people look to forget and chase fl more than justified.
But no one has the wright way proved yet,I will be very curious to know if you can solve this spot mathematically.
Nov. 18, 2014 | 10:46 a.m.
Hi Jen a little critique please don’t take it personal.
First i want to apologize for my not so good english, this is my best effort.
On 17:20 while you talk about your opponent's hand of AhQh4c6c6s you happen to know the standard way of setting the hand,what makes you believe you know what’s standard,nobody can prove that. This is a very common spot, ill play that hand different from “standard" all the time and i think I’m wright but i don’t know whats optimal. I will play
and I won’t like the other option. My reasoning is fear from the unknown,cz I’m of position and I want a live kicker with my pair,so I’m gonna wait to see my opponent's hand before i take a kicker with my pair in that spot. I like a big kicker better to have a viable option to make 2 pair 2 pair when I happen to miss my ace on the next draw, some other times i will hit a pair on next draw make two pair on the bottom and make my hand supper strong, with the “standard" set up I won't know what to do with any pair from 22-JJ exclude 44 and 66 if I happen to hit them on the next draw.I will have to take them on my bottom hand and cap my bottom hand to 2 pair therefore caping the whole hand to a very weak one.
Other times when i get no help on second draw I can direct the hand to a 2 pair 2pair draw with the 2 pair AA option still open. I think my set up dominates the other one
but i could be wrong, so I vote we don’t know yet what’s optimal,nobody does.
I think when we see something that every body does we should not assume that that is the optimal play,cz sometimes everybody is wrong,especially poker players whoo usually are prone to copping and some times bad in math, some of them try to make comparisons of this game with poker and there is very little in common,cz this game looks closer to chess than it is to poker. chess players appear to be stronger players in this game, poker players usually get crushed.(sorry poker players I’m one).
On your next video please tell us something about ofcp, chess and poker comparisons, it could be of great help to many people in examining the nature of the beast, so teach us the game from the chess player’s perspective some times please.
I got other spots that i don’t agree with the play but i would have to make long comments to try to make my point, and i’m scared that i could be way off so ill wait and see what other people think before.
So please comment if you find mistakes with my reasoning.
Thank you very much!
Nov. 16, 2014 | 11:37 a.m.
Thanks professor your videos and comments really helped my game, i’m gonna comment because I wanna discuss some points and make sure i don't keep making same mistakes.
on hand #1 how do you like
Is my set up bad?,making KK up top with a T in a middle looks hard. our opponent is blocking an A ,do we pair the K if we hit it in the second draw?
On hand #2 since we up against fl I like to play conservative and try not to bust and give myself the best chance of not getting scooped, very often qualifying is good enough to not get scooped, we don’t know his hand he does not know ours either,so I like the harmonious set up best,
Are all the other options very close?
Hand #3 Our opponent is starting with a huge hand ,so is time for us to gamble , we cant possibly beat his bottom unless we get super lucky so Q up top is the way to answer 64 for bottom with all live flushes is nice we are gonna need to get lucky anyway our hand is dominated. gut shot is something i didn’t think of is a great alternative but which one is best compare to 64 on the bottom,which one do we choose?
Thank you very much!
Nov. 8, 2014 | 10:38 a.m.
You never play people you don’t trust,usually you play with other poker players, their word is like a contract you set up the rules,how much per point,when do you settle, how to settle frozen hands and all you have to worry is how to win.
Playing unknowns or people with bad reputation is like getting free rolled.
If you're good at the game all they free-roll you for is your time so find a balance.
Nov. 8, 2014 | 9:51 a.m.
Playing on the app after like 1000 -2000 hands which is easy to do playing 4 tables you should be able to tell if you can beat the opponent, though some people improve fast. You would be lucky when you find an opponent that has a static set up, you can adjust to his tendencies and crush. So yes I was serious but I can’t prove it is just an opinion. Good luck to you.
Nov. 8, 2014 | 9:40 a.m.
Agree with your set up, could be the only set that makes sense anything else is probably fishy though i’d consider
because I'm of position taking a kicker with my big pair only to see that opponent blocks it hurts
Nov. 7, 2014 | 7:52 a.m.
I agree with #1 though flush flush is very apealing but I like pairs a lot.
# 2 I like J/AA/103 puting the J with AA is like throwing it away you can’t pair it if you hit J on the next draw and not unltil your bottom hand improves either to a flush draw or three of the kind that wont hapen often enough.
#3 is an easy one there shouldn’t be other alternative (but i could be wrong).
I posted this hand by mistake and wasn’t able to delete so sorry for that.
Thank yoy for your comment any help is realy apreciated.
Nov. 7, 2014 | 6:50 a.m.
I liked your video a lot though on 35 min considering living space for a Q up top instead of taking JJ imediatly surprised me, I thought is not even close.
I think I heard from you somewhere but dont remember I wanna ask for your opinion of how much a fl is worth.