Hey Toni. That's a helpful post. May I ask how you first got good at selecting starting hands in PLO from various positions? I think I'd like some coaching but need to get the basics sorted first so that I can really improve on more technical aspects with coaching. I feel like PLO is still a game where a lot of fish exist, unlike in NLHE, so its attractive to get learning the game.
May 2, 2021 | 11:36 a.m.
In FTGU we learn that typically an Ace high flop favours the Preflop raiser and middling flops favour the caller. But by how much?
I've been doing some calculations using range chart ranges and got surprising results. For example, using a CO open range vs a BTN calling range, on a flop of As7d5d I've found the CO range to have only 47.77% equity.
I got to this figure by simulating all CO open hands vs all BTN calling hands and counting the wins/draws/losses for all possible runouts after the flop. Then I take (wins + (draws/2))/total runouts.
On a flop of 8h7h6c, CO equity comes out as 47.54%.
Should I be seeing much bigger differences between equity of ranges for these different flops as I expect?
The range charts are from a reputable source which I won't mention.
Is this a surprising result to you as it is to me? Are there any existing free tools that calculate equity for competing ranges so I can check my own program is working correctly?
March 12, 2021 | 6:25 p.m.
I've watched all the videos now and really enjoyed the course. It's given me lots of ideas. If you can get a copy of the Grinder's Manual book, that can be a great help as it gives much more detail.
My approach was to take notes on all the videos. I'm now going to go back to the start and study sections in detail to figure out how to implement the concepts into my game.
It would still be good though to have input from a coach on which parts to bring into my game in which order. I think you can implement river play and probably preflop play as individual items. But Flop and Turn play would really have to come in all at once or else you'd end up not knowing how to proceed half way through a hand.
March 10, 2021 | 11:06 a.m.
thanks. That makes sense
March 7, 2021 | 1:46 p.m.
Yeah, some of your points there are really good and clear. If playing GTO means you don't make mistakes, including when it comes to getting value, and your opponents miss value bets, they effectively gift you money that way over time.
I guess another way to put it may be that GTO is not only unexploitable but also ensures you get value appropriately where some players miss it?
However, what if we think about a player who over-folds in all situations. We get free money when we have the weaker hand but they save money when we have the stronger hand. How do we know they are making a net loss here?
Similarly, a player that calls too much gains when we have the weaker hand and loses when we are stronger. If we are playing perfect GTO, without exploiting, how do we know this balances out in our favour?
Does it all come down to opening ranges being better than opponents when playing GTO?
March 5, 2021 | 11:49 a.m.
As per my title, I get the part that we want to defend 70% of hands to the 7.5bb raise from the BB villain, but if, as Peter suggests, the 87s hand is losing 200bb/100, why would we want to defend with it even if its part of our top 70% of hands? Seems a little counter-intuitive.
March 4, 2021 | 2:04 p.m.
I'm surprise nobody has asked this yet. I'm half way through the videos and finding the concepts very interesting and understandable. However, there are not many examples and no live play demonstrations.
I'm wondering how we should go about starting to introduce these strategies into our game in a manageable and easy to apply/step-by-step manner. Is there any advice on this?
Also, are there any videos, particularly of Peter, playing a live session and explaining his decisions and actions at every step and how they relate to the course material? That would be very valuable for implementing the strategies IMO.
March 4, 2021 | 1:06 p.m.
I was about to reply to this and see if there was anybody still interested in working together. Then I saw the email address. It's not Mike Postle is it? LOL
March 4, 2021 | 1:02 p.m.
Hi Whiteshark. Did you get any response to your request? I'm half way through the video course and just started on the book. I should also be getting the Upswing lab soon too. So it seems like we are in a similar position.
I may be 3 months behind you given the date of your post but I also played professionally from 2005-2011 and was a 5K NL 6-max reg so maybe I have a head start from a play point of view.
However, I'm looking to learn the modern game so let me know if you want to do some work together.
March 4, 2021 | 12:58 p.m.
I have a conceptual problem with my view of GTO play. My understanding is that the idea of playing GTO is to be unexploitable. I understand that when playing perfect GTO, at any game, you become invincible in the long term. Nothing the opponent can do can exploit your play. However, it seems to me that the reverse is also true - i.e. it should not be possible to beat opponents in the long term by playing GTO.
For example, if you play Rock, Paper, Scissors, the perfect GTO strategy is to randomly select between the 3 choices. You can't be beat in the long term with this approach but you also can't win in the long term - any opponent strategy will result in a long term draw. If they pick paper every time then you win 33% or the time and lose 33% of the time.
So why should we aim to play GTO? How do we profit from this? Am I missing some key concept that means we win whenever our opponent makes a bad/suboptimal play in poker?
Or is the aim to learn GTO play and then learn how to diverge from it in order to exploit opponents better without risking too much bad play on our own part?
I'd really like to understand this - can anybody explain?
March 4, 2021 | 12:22 p.m.
Yeah, I agree with that. If I think about a wider range, I probably want to raise but not shove with some overpairs or sets, so its likely better to put this hand in that smaller raise range too. I guess I'm looking for a more definitive answer like how you might use a solver to see how good/bad my play was and how much better another approach could be. I mean, if a smaller raise isn't much better EV then it might make sense to keep life simple and have a shove range in this spot to avoid having to deal with difficult turns OOP. I think the AA, KK, QQ are calling the shove anyway, but this might get some middling pairs or bigger flush draws to fold?
March 2, 2021 | 4:43 p.m.
Hi guys. I'm looking to step into some proper analysis of hand histories. I had a hand last night. I think my play was fine actually. But I'd like to work out for sure. So here goes:
Playing $5/10 6max NLHE with $1k effective stacks. I open 8s9s to $25 from HJ, and CO raises to $75. Folds around to me and I call (maybe too loose but size seems small enough to call?). Flop 6h5s2s, I check, CO bets $95 and I shove $925.
My thinking at the time was I have 2 overs, a gutshot and flush draw. Opponent should have a strong range but mostly high cards and isn't hitting this flop often. So against his AK/AQ type hands I may have 18 outs, and against overpairs I have 12 outs so not a big dog. Shove looks to me like it has a lot of fold equity and if called I've got over 40% equity.
I know the result doesn't matter too much - I'm interested in EV of this play.
But for those who want to know, villain called with 6c5c and I won with 7h4h runout.
Interested to hear constructive thoughts.
March 1, 2021 | 4:13 p.m.
Are there more beginner level videos to get used to the kind of language you're using and the software you're looking at? I think I'd get a lot more from this with some foundational knowledge first. I'd also like to see videos on putting the preflop range in action and the process of making use of it while you don't have it all memorised.
Feb. 5, 2021 | 7:37 p.m.
Hi guys. I've just got an Elite subscription and am planning to put in a lot of hours making the most of it. However, looking at the huge list of videos available is a little overwhelming. I'm an experienced NLHE player having played full time from 2005-2011. But I've never used HUDs or studied GTO poker before. Having come back to the game recently I feel like a fish so I want to start studying from scratch.
Is there a path or series of videos available with Elite that someone could recommend to get started from scratch? I don't mind going over concepts I might know about all ready as I can make sure I'm thinking in the right way and get a fresh start with my game. I'm very serious about this and want to get back to a pro level of play with the modern game.
I'd like to know what I need to learn before getting involved with solvers and then which videos to watch to learn how to go about using solvers, assuming they're available here. Also, are there any materials going over how to set up and make best use of HUDs?
Are there any downloadable range charts on the site? I can't see any anywhere.
I have some software dev skills and could make some of my own tools if beneficial.