BigDickPlaya's avatar


1 points

The top 2 AK vs 777 was the only spew of the day. I'm only down like 35 bb's all day, too. I shouldn't be complaining to the extent that I am but it's really, really tedious at times. I've spent a lot of time on this today just to be where I'm at.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software -

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
CO ($0.57) [VPIP: 40% | PFR: 40% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 100% | Hands: 5]
BTN ($12.18) [VPIP: 24.3% | PFR: 20.7% | AGG: 30.9% | 3-Bet: 9.2% | Hands: 407]
SB ($13.61) [VPIP: 100% | PFR: 100% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 100% | Hands: 3]
HERO ($10.8)
UTG ($20.99) [VPIP: 13% | PFR: 8.7% | AGG: 33.3% | 3-Bet: 100% | Hands: 23]
HJ ($17.47) [VPIP: 7.2% | PFR: 3.6% | AGG: 40% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 83]

Dealt to Hero: Qd Qs

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Raises To $0.57 (allin), BTN Folds, SB Raises To $1.81, HERO Raises To $5.02, SB Calls $3.21

Hero SPR on Flop: [0 effective]
Flop ($10.61): 4d 2d 8h
SB Checks, HERO Bets $5.78 (allin), SB Folds

Turn ($16.39): 4d 2d 8h Jh

River ($16.39): 4d 2d 8h Jh 7s

CO shows: Kh 4c

HERO wins: $9.93

Again - what's to complain about here? It's just that to make money, you have to really be pretty good all around today in a lot of the environments online.

Aug. 24, 2019 | 2:41 a.m.

These are the folds I'm talking about - What is v betting out front on river with on that board that he's folding to my value raise?

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software -

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
SB ($11.11) [VPIP: 6.6% | PFR: 4.1% | AGG: 21.3% | 3-Bet: 0.7% | Hands: 711]
BB ($10.27) [VPIP: 11.2% | PFR: 6.7% | AGG: 42.1% | 3-Bet: 4.7% | Hands: 179]
UTG ($20.34) [VPIP: 9.2% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 26.7% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 336]
HERO ($10) [VPIP: 25.4% | PFR: 16.2% | AGG: 25.2% | 3-Bet: 5.2% | Hands: 54820]
CO ($7.28) [VPIP: 19% | PFR: 9.5% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 21]
BTN ($11.15) [VPIP: 22.8% | PFR: 14.3% | AGG: 30.2% | 3-Bet: 4.9% | Hands: 1022]

Dealt to Hero: 6c 6s

UTG Folds, HERO Raises To $0.30, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Calls $0.20

Hero SPR on Flop: [14.92 effective]
Flop ($0.65): Jd 4h Jc
BB Checks, HERO Bets $0.40 (Rem. Stack: 9.3), BB Calls $0.40 (Rem. Stack: 9.57)

Turn ($1.45): Jd 4h Jc 8d
BB Checks, HERO Checks

River ($1.45): Jd 4h Jc 8d 6h
BB Bets $0.89 (Rem. Stack: 8.68), HERO Raises To $3.08 (Rem. Stack: 6.22), BB Folds

HERO wins: $3.00

Lots of folds like this the last few months.

Aug. 24, 2019 | 1:27 a.m.

They may beat live poker consistently but for how much money? Unless it's like 70k+ (USD) a year, it's pretty pointless as anything else that required that much time and energy (and extreme risk) would make more money than that. Are there really people who like grinding it out for hours on end so much that they give up everything else they could be doing to play poker? That's not the only sacrifice, either - Physical and mental health are going to suffer if you're spending that much time sitting in a chair all day and night every week. There's no two ways about it. So, basically it's giving up any resume experience that means anything to anyone (you're going to tell your future employer you played poker? They'll laugh) along with your physical and mental health. If there's someone who likes the game that much, then they obviously need an intervention as they're simply addicted. Financially, as said - this is probably the least productive thing you could get involved in today. That's what bots, solvers, endless training material, etc cause.

With online cash this dead I may as well just put the large majority of my free time elsewhere as I have zero interest in sitting in a casino, grinding it out for hours on end.

I like the game, too. Clearly just not anywhere near enough to spend the kind of time grinding that is necessary today, though. Countless activities are just infinitely more entertaining. I bitch and moan but I stick around and play because like many of you - I've been playing on and off for a handful of years now. It would be weird to just stop entirely. If someone valued my opinion and asked me about getting involved in the game, though - I'd tell them to either not play at all or just play in tournaments now and then as a pastime without expecting anything to come from it. I'd feel wrong telling someone to invest time, money, and the extreme amount of energy that is necessary into online cash here in almost 2020. People with experience and professional training shouldn't be struggling from 2nl-25nl and yet there are tons of us on this very site like that. That's ridiculous.

Aug. 24, 2019 | 12:37 a.m.

I'd be about even for the day if I had folded to the guy's shove with 777 when I had AK but let's be real - after folding for 2.5 hours, who's going to fold that, too? Anyone? I've never met a person IRL with that kind of patience lol. If they exist, they must never leave the computer screen.

I know pran plays live so online is a good primer/trainer for him but if you're looking to make money, online poker ain't the place. Speaking of live, though - 1,060 hands online is about the same as 35 or so hours of live play. So, in almost a full week's worth of table time I'd have seen one 100bb effective all in and it was basically a cooler? So, live doesn't sound very lucrative either. I guess we have a ton of convicted felons who play it for a living or something because I can't see anyone with an option sitting there like that all week for nothing lol.

As for online, this thread pretty much sums up what the problem is and why you can't find anyone who makes any money:

After that, anyone would feel foolish for putting in table time. I certainly do.

Aug. 23, 2019 | 10:41 p.m.

1,060 zoom hands today. 4.5 hours at the tables. Those above were the only two stackoffs I saw period. Checked db and literally nobody in the pool made any money. Nothing except the guy who hit the bbj (worst player ever, of course).

Obv after sitting here for 4.5 hours my ass hurts, my head and eyes hurt, I'm exhausted, etc. Not sure how many more of these sessions I'm going to put in. It's just impossible to make a nickel in cash games today. If someone really finds it feasible to sit for 6+ hours a day playing hands be it. That's obviously terribly unhealthy and anything that requires that much time to win a few bucks just isn't worth it.

So boring, too. Loooooong, drawn out tanks on every card, every street, every bet. Nothing could possibly make less money than online poker today. I've made threads on 2p2 and still can't find one regular US cash game pro today. Not one. Obviously, I'm wasting my time here.

Aug. 23, 2019 | 10:26 p.m.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software -

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
BTN ($9.9) [VPIP: 7% | PFR: 7% | AGG: 66.7% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 57]
SB ($14.68) [VPIP: 19.5% | PFR: 16.7% | AGG: 32.6% | 3-Bet: 8% | Hands: 443]
BB ($10.4) [VPIP: 15.4% | PFR: 10.7% | AGG: 46.2% | 3-Bet: 3.6% | Hands: 465]
HERO ($10.25) [VPIP: 25.5% | PFR: 16.3% | AGG: 25.2% | 3-Bet: 5.2% | Hands: 53622]
HJ ($15.38) [VPIP: 33.3% | PFR: 33.3% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 6]
CO ($11.54) [VPIP: 9.5% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 28.1% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 211]

Dealt to Hero: Ad Kd

HERO Raises To $0.30, HJ Folds, CO Calls $0.30, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [13.27 effective]
Flop ($0.75): 4c Ks 7h
HERO Bets $0.30 (Rem. Stack: 9.65), CO Calls $0.30 (Rem. Stack: 10.94)

Turn ($1.35): 4c Ks 7h Ah
HERO Bets $0.79 (Rem. Stack: 8.86), CO Raises To $10.94 (allin), HERO Calls $8.86 (allin)

River ($21.94): 4c Ks 7h Ah Td

CO shows: 7d 7c

CO wins: $19.41

seems awfully coincidental that this hand would happen right after this one. It's almost like you're not allowed to win money. Every time you do, you run into an unfoldable cooler.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software -

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
SB ($7.52) [VPIP: 41.7% | PFR: 25% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 12]
BB ($10.65) [VPIP: 18.2% | PFR: 4.5% | AGG: 25% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 22]
UTG ($15.65) [VPIP: 26.1% | PFR: 14.3% | AGG: 35.8% | 3-Bet: 6.7% | Hands: 120]
HERO ($11.42) [VPIP: 25.5% | PFR: 16.3% | AGG: 25.2% | 3-Bet: 5.2% | Hands: 53674]
CO ($9) [VPIP: 12.3% | PFR: 7.6% | AGG: 22.4% | 3-Bet: 3.8% | Hands: 473]
BTN ($10) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 2]

Dealt to Hero: Kd Ah

UTG Raises To $0.25, HERO Raises To $0.90, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Raises To $3.05, BB Folds, UTG Folds, HERO Raises To $11.42 (allin), SB Calls $4.47 (allin)

Flop ($19.29): 3h Td 5c

Turn ($19.29): 3h Td 5c Qc

River ($19.29): 3h Td 5c Qc Ad

SB shows: 4c 4d

HERO wins: $14.44

Aug. 23, 2019 | 8:07 p.m.

It's too expensive to bluff people like that when you're trying to put money together. If you have a huge bankroll to start with and can afford losing tons of money, while also spending 8-10+ hours a day grinding, you might get the cash game to be profitable today. Otherwise? Bankroll building seems to be a thing of the past and with these overly tight, high rake games - the time spent to learn the game is hardly worth it. I've never seen the game less profitable than it is right now.

I play for recreation and put in less volume than I would otherwise because it's just not very lucrative anymore.

Aug. 23, 2019 | 7:16 p.m.

Honestly: Getting people to stack off without a monster is almost impossible at 10nl now, too. I have no idea how anyone makes any money at this. It really is pulling teeth to ever get value when you're ahead. /shrug

I just got out of a 10nl zoom pool myself. Game is as hard as it ever was and I didn't see one person get stacked in 3 hours. Everyone just shuffling money around, paying the house rake. The only people I see making any money at any stake are those willing to spend 8-10 hours a day grinding.

Aug. 23, 2019 | 7:10 p.m.

Eldora I never wound up buying Pio but I have no affiliation with Flopzilla or CREV/GTO+ at all. I'm just a fan. GTO+ and the new FZPro are what's new though so that's what everyone's talking about these days.

Aug. 23, 2019 | 1:14 p.m.

How applicable is this thought process when playing micros poker? Is it really applicable at all when villain is most definitely not thinking in ranges and doesn't understand who has the advantage, what kind of combos the range is comprised of, etc?

Aug. 22, 2019 | 7:12 p.m.

What stakes were these?

Aug. 22, 2019 | 6:27 p.m.

We still have issues with blitz poker lol. They've rolled it out three separate times now and it continues to crash at times. Last week, it crashed with 80+ people in the 10nlz pool and everyone's money got "stuck" in the interwebz. Many people still haven't had it refunded yet.

That said - things seem much more stable with it the last few days. Hopefully they can get this ironed out as the fall population influx is already starting with kids getting back to college now.

Aug. 22, 2019 | 3:56 a.m.

FlopzillaPRO and the new version of GTO+ are pretty amazing. Move over PIO.

Aug. 21, 2019 | 3:58 p.m.

Yeah, @crushlikepran...You keep grinding out that 5nl money. That's noble work you're doing!

Aug. 20, 2019 | 6:54 p.m.

Aug. 20, 2019 | 7:28 a.m.

Aug. 19, 2019 | 7:51 p.m.

How can I manually calculate card removal/blocker effects like that? I'm going to start paying more attention to that with my software work, too.

Aug. 13, 2019 | 8:24 p.m.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4:

SB: $10.05 (VPIP: 18.94, PFR: 13.66, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, Hands: 233)
Hero (BB): $10.35
UTG: $10.10 (VPIP: 27.91, PFR: 11.63, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 43)
CO: $22.54 (VPIP: 32.31, PFR: 21.54, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 66)
BTN: $12.40 (VPIP: 31.82, PFR: 25.76, 3Bet Preflop: 12.90, Hands: 67)

SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Kc Ks
fold, CO raises to $0.30, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.10, CO calls $0.80

Flop : ($2.25, 2 players) 3c 9c 8h
Hero bets $1.32, CO calls $1.32

Turn : ($4.89, 2 players) 8s
Hero checks, CO bets $4.89, HERO ???

I know this is a different situation but I'm curious how you would play this...

Aug. 12, 2019 | 5:30 p.m.

I think some of this ties into a subject that I've been learning about lately: Elasticity. No? Some of these guys are so inelastic that they'll call that shove with the same range they would call a 1/2 pot cbet with. Why not charge them full price for it when you have a massive range/equity advantage?

Aug. 12, 2019 | 4:10 p.m.

But if against a non thinking player who just doesn't want to fold his hand in a big 3bet pot - why would I not get the money in when I know he'll call it?

I'm asking because this "get the money in smoothly by the river" isn't really what anyone else is teaching. Just RIO. Guys shove flop and turn in all sorts of spots that you guys are teaching to lay down another 70% value bet. It leads to awkward spr on later streets and gives villain a chance to realize his equity without stacking off. I just don't understand...Stacking off on the flop in the right spots is where a ton of my and other's money comes from.

I mean, you guys see all the hand histories. You see people shoving 2-4x pot on the turn and river and stacking people. I just don't get this fetish with small value bets and "if he sucks out he sucks out". By the time you get to the river with a lot of these guys there's either a) no more value to extract because they know where they do and don't stand or b) a good chance that he's finally hit his hand and you're now dealing with a reverse implied odds situation.

Especially at micros/lows - this constantly value betting when you know villain will call a shove way behind just makes no sense.

Aug. 12, 2019 | 3:08 p.m.

Post | BigDickPlaya posted in NLHE: Cash Game Shoving Question

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4:

BB: $9.77 (VPIP: 18.97, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 203)
UTG: $11.15 (VPIP: 28.81, PFR: 20.34, 3Bet Preflop: 4.26, Hands: 124)
MP: $7.34 (VPIP: 28.82, PFR: 18.78, 3Bet Preflop: 1.23, Hands: 237)
CO: $14.65 (VPIP: 21.20, PFR: 14.13, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 484)
Hero (BTN): $10.00
SB: $21.36 (VPIP: 25.85, PFR: 21.82, 3Bet Preflop: 10.13, Hands: 1,063)

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has As Ah
fold, fold, CO raises to $0.22, Hero raises to $0.94, fold, fold, CO calls $0.72

Flop : ($2.03, 2 players) 4c Jh 7c
CO checks, Hero bets $9.06 and is all-in, CO calls $9.06

Now, different players and different sites obviously advocate different things at times. I'm curious because I've seen posts here where players have said never to be like 2x or 3x pot in spots like this. 1) Why? What is their rationale for not doing so and 2) If I know villain is behind and I think he's going to call, isn't that precisely the time to get as much money in as possible, especially if it's a shove?

Aug. 12, 2019 | 7:02 a.m.

RedChip has numerous videos that detail using Flopzilla extensively. I still prefer power equilab for some things (mw pots) but the visualization and intuition that Flopzilla provides is second to none. Fz + holdeq along with gto+ is pretty amazing right now. But yeah, I don't think you'll see anyone dig into flopzilla more than Splitsuit and the guys over at rcp.

Aug. 11, 2019 | 2:23 p.m.

Kruzer20 That's a common beginner's leak when using solvers. Using a solver is always helpful and applicable in today's games. GTO is a foundation to go upon - you find exploitable holes in your opponent's strat and then deviate from GTO as is appropriate to play the most EV lines against them.

Start using GTO+ and legitimately studying range v range analysis with Flopzilla. It's worth it.

Aug. 9, 2019 | 3:11 a.m.

Comment | BigDickPlaya commented on Enough with pio

It's way too much PIO. That's independent of how helpful PIO is as a learning tool. Many of us use GTO+, Power Equilab, Flopzilla, etc. Seeing nothing but this enormous emphasis on PIO based analysis is definitely costing RIO subs and has been for quite some time.

Aug. 9, 2019 | 3:07 a.m.

Come on, Baby. Get it together...

Aug. 4, 2019 | 4:15 a.m.

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