RaoulFlush's avatar

RaoulFlush

1677 points

In this case we have to take the EV of the whole gametree into account (including equity realization over several streets).
So if we 3bet a polar range, our range is nuts or air (theorywise). So the plan is to get the maximum of chips into the pot asap either for value or as a bluff (thats the reason for big 3bets or barrels).
A strong linear range has to slow down on a lot of runouts as the valueportion is not pure nuts and our bluffs usually have more equity over several streets.
So if players tend to overcall vs 3bets, we want them to call even whider vs our (linear) range at best, because our rangeadvantage on average is much stronger and so we can go thinner for value over several streets.
Maybe a toygame for this:
Imagine our 3betrange to be AA and 72 and we bomb all streets (polar range).
Villain only flats 22-66 pre (because we 3bet pretty big).
We usually take down the pot early, but AA dont get max value this way.
But if we 3bet 99-AA (linear) smaller and villain defends 22-TT, villain will have a much tougher time folding postflop as his range is stronger, but still on a heavy disadvantage.
But in this case we will be able to extract more value from the top of our range over several streets.
Keep in mind that in my toygame some hands of our range still will be bluffs on later streets maybe.

Aug. 19, 2022 | 4:54 a.m.

Dr. Maximilious Exploitopoulos MD
I guess 4b/gii is totally fine as well. But still: 4b/folding would only be a mathematical correct exploit if we expect Villains range to be even stronger than QQ+/AK…
And i expect this even at 10nl not to be the case CO vs BU in most pools

Aug. 12, 2022 | 2:27 p.m.

The real problem is: if we 4bet we usually get correct odds for calling off 100BB.
Usually we are forced to call vs QQ+/AK…so 4b/folding seems to be a decent mistake to me.
In solverland this usually is just a 4bet/gii spot.
But as people at 10NL are usually 3betting the BU still (a little) too less, i guess this might be a punt also.
So i would choose the call and rely on postflopskillsdvantage readless.
Its not a printingspot for sure and every little piece of info will help.
I guess im calling like 88-JJ
Calling: AQs/KQs
Mixing up 4bets/flats with AQo/AJo (4b/f in this case).

Aug. 12, 2022 | 1:11 p.m.

Wizard is mixing this heavilly and takes suits into account.
AKo checking between 55% and 80% of the time.
Rule of thumb: the more we unblock floats (bdfd mainly) the more we will bet. So AdKx and AxKd will get around 40% of the time.
So indeed heros combo will be bet about 30% of the time (kind of suprising to me).
However: i guess simplifying this to checking should be fine as well as the dEV is super small.
And last point: wizard is even choosing the 75% bet OTF

Aug. 8, 2022 | 8:23 a.m.

Overall this looks fine to me. My 2cents would be:
Pre: we usually 3bet polarized here, so i might add 1-2BB
Flop: sizing is fine, but we cannot bet our broadways here all the time (i guess your combo is a pretty rare cbet).
Turn: we usually bet here pretty polarized and so i guess im betting 1/2 or check with my range.

Aug. 7, 2022 | 5:57 p.m.

Numbers from wizard:

AJ2r: 44,3/55,7
KJ2r: 45,4/54,6

Not what i expected tbh :0

Aug. 7, 2022 | 4:52 p.m.

A good idea for studying turnsizings is to analyze range vs range equitygraphs.
So take a look at both boards and pick various turns and look at the distribution of equity in each range, because the distribution will heavilly drive the chosen sizings and frequencies.
The cool thing is, that programs like pio (not sure about GTO+) show you every specific combo in this graph as well.
So you can deeply dive into the analysis why certain parts of the range want to bet certain sizings.
You might find some interesting stuff comparing both boards like this.

Aug. 7, 2022 | 12:33 p.m.

Ismallah1
There is a pretty cool video from shaun pauels (i think its his first) where he checks some aggregated reports:
KXX-boards are one of the worst boards BB can hit in your scenario as KX-combos are one of the most 3bets from his PoV preflop. This is especially true BB vs BU as Bb can either 3bet a lot of strong Broadways (like KJo even)+ some weak suited Kx (K4s+) stuff, while he is priced in to flat a lot of weak AXo as HawksWin already pointed out.
So on every brick turn the range- and nutsadvantage of BU is a lot bigger on KXX rather than AXX which allows him to overbet-bomb on a high frequency.

Aug. 5, 2022 | 6:17 p.m.

Comment | RaoulFlush commented on Video removed?

Oh…you might contact Eldora from the support. Im not able to find it either and it was pretty good :(

July 30, 2022 | 10:57 a.m.

Welcome back to the tables!
I guess im just calling flop. Equities will be fairly even distributed between all ranges and so raises from your PoV will be rare.
I still expect this to be a low frequency raise, but i would hate to fold out better draws and would pure call this spot.
But imo shoving turn should be a punt. Both villains will have an advantage in 3x combos and as you already pointed out: with 2 FD our FE will be pretty low in general.
So this looks like a call and fold unimproved OTR…

July 29, 2022 | 2:49 p.m.

Maybe kind of an illustration could help here. For this I screenshot UTG openrange from wizard with colors showing the EV of certain hands.

This table already includes x% of rake. You have to keep in mind here that GTO doesn’t maximize the EV of hands or ranges vs real life opponents.
This table only shows you how much certain hands in your range expect to win/loose vs GTO-ranges.
If all players at the table play GTO, all ranges win exactly nothing vs each other!
So it makes sense to modificate ranges vs real-life players (finding exploits).
So a hand like 89s (0EV) could be +EV due to a skilledge.
However: this hand could also be -EV due to the fact that a pot you win will be raked. And if the rake will be higher than our chosen x, the hand can easily become unprofitable.
So the answer to this is not clear, because maybe you have a huge skill-edge that makes a lot of hands +EV, but the rake will make it usually impossible to expand this range extensively.

July 21, 2022 | 2:28 p.m.

HodorIsKing
Dont forget how long it takes pio to solve certain spots at several stackdepths.
I used GTO+ before and totally moved to wizard. To have every spot solved and accessible in seconds is awesome and will be kind of impossible to do on your own with pio.
On the other hand: Setting parameters and build ranges for a solver is a great exercise as well and will improve your ability to visualize ranges in real time a lot.
So i would go with hawks and say that using both is great.
Decision about how much $ to invest in study tools is a bit up to you. Its kind of tough to grind in the fee for wizard by playing the micros.
But if you love studying an can afford the costs, it can still be worth it.

July 19, 2022 | 1:38 p.m.

Comment | RaoulFlush commented on AA crushed?

Why are you that sure to see a bluff OTR?
I still see some weaker hands valuebetting and so this seems like a clear call to me as we are not even pure bluffcatching.
Also: why do you check flop/river?

July 16, 2022 | 5:57 a.m.

Dr. Maximilious Exploitopoulos MD
These infos are all available in wizard. They are also visible in the training mode.

July 13, 2022 | 4:55 a.m.

Comment | RaoulFlush commented on SB vs BB

I disagree on this for mathematical reasons. This looks like an ez 4b/gii for me:
1) vs someone who 3bets a decent % of his range, we will have a Straight 4bet for value preflop. jj has roughly 60% equity vs a 11.5% linear range. This will be even more vs a polar range obviously. For the most part i also expect his 3b% to be even higher in this spot. And BvB i would care less about folding out weaker hands as villain will still be forced to play a lot of weaker hands in a 4bet pot also.
2) facing a jam we dont look out for a range that splits vs our JJ: we need a Range that offers correct pot odds. That will be usually around 33%. So if villain jams QQ+/AK ONLY here, we still have a call with JJ (roughly 36% equity). And im sure we wont see those hands only here.

July 11, 2022 | 5:04 a.m.

you mean 4bet defend?
So wizard 3betting indeed A3s on a decent frequency SB vs BU but then pure fold vs 4bet from BU at 200BBs
Was kind of surprised as well, but I guess A3s simply performs poorly vs a nutty linear range in this solve. This should be especially a problem in real life.
But what do you think about for an exploitive flat vs RFI?

May 6, 2022 | 10:03 a.m.

FYI: wizard is pure folding this combo vs a 4bet pre

May 6, 2022 | 3:47 a.m.

Not a huge fan of the 5bet pre tbh…i guess we could simply call the 4bet as well or even considering a straight flat pre with this combo?
In practice ppl will 4bet pre mostly for straight linear value this deep ip i guess. So folding vs 4bet also seems valid.

As played: your line is pretty nuts and so i guess cbetting flop is fine. As you said, some QQ/JJ/AQ/A5s stuff that will fold here…i doubt a fold from AK after flatting a 5bet

May 5, 2022 | 4:25 a.m.

This is a good and correct thought. For that reason we will have to mix this up with a lot of our range. So we wont always XR here.
However:
We will be on a heavy rangedisadvantage here, because we dont have any 2p in our range and 77 might also be a low freq 3bet pre.
So indeed BU will attack our range OTT with overbets often.
So theorywise we will be forced to do some marginal calls OTT vs huge sizings.
But i doubt that on lower stakes players will find the correct amount of bluffs in the overbetting turn node.
So i would say that overfolding turns after XC is still the way to go on a lot of turns vs bigger sizings. This is indeed very exploitable.

May 1, 2022 | 5:52 a.m.

Ok…
About your first point:
I guess this is a bias of rangeprojection. Take a look at a BB vs BU flatting range and count the combos that hit 2nd pair+ on AKx vs JTx and you will see that we simply hit a lot less pairs to the board already on the last one.
But we also lack a lot of other high equity draws.
About your 2nd post:
Its totally fine to slow down turns. We dont have any real reason to bet as our deny of equity comes from folding out random 2 cards that Cbet and fold OTF.
So villains range that continues will be a lot stronger obv.
So a high frequency check is solid as we cant bet for value anymore and esp on broadway cards also equity denial isnt much of a thing anymore.
So our A4 immediately gets a pure bluffcatcher that will be mixing XC and XF in theory already.
So if we assume that ppl cbet too much and fold too much vs XR, then simply XF turn looks fine to me in a lot of scenarios.

April 30, 2022 | 7:15 p.m.

What about throwing mathematics and GTO out if the window and recheck your own success?
If you already have some volume and HM, you could filter for this spot (Hero calls 3bet pre ip/oop).
Look at the hands that are winning for sure and seem to bee loosing.
Cut out the last category and look for hands that are on the edge.
Start studying this category of hands and look out for mistakes and problems.
Play and elaborate this category on a decent volume. Start experimenting with hands.
If you work out Ranges like this, you can take your own skill level and pool exploits into account.

April 30, 2022 | 9:05 a.m.

Mate…this switch of alias is killin me :d

April 29, 2022 | 3:53 p.m.

If you are willing to invest some money into software, i would recommend GTO-wizard as well.
For the premiumversion you will be able to study most spots and stackdepths.
But this tool is fairly expensive with something like 69$/month (even though its worth it!)
But second +1 is on GTO+
If you have a decent PC and time, you can already gain a lot of knowledge for about 100$ for a lifetime license with this!

April 29, 2022 | 1:46 p.m.

Its tricky to estimate these CC-ranges in real life. Eps at NL5 without further info this could be totally random (as like the chosen line postflop).
Theorywise this CC should be pretty condensed. Something like 66-TT, KTs-KQs, some KQo and stuff like ATs-AQs and maybe even some KJo/KQ. Only a super small fraction (if at all) of SCs and A2s-A5s.

So in my 2cents would be:
1) villain could have 2 combos of sets.
2) villain could have top2 OTT
3) Villain rarely has A2s/A5s
4) QJs/AJs/AQs will be moatly 3bets pre (and could be bluffraises OTT)
5) nl5 pools underbluff every street
6) Overbets are underbluffed in general as well.

To sum this up: this looks like an easy fold OTR and exploitevly this might already be a fold OTT.
Dont worry about beeing bluffed at this Limit.
Herocalls from your pov is not where the money will come from!

Cheers

April 29, 2022 | 1:42 p.m.

Its due to the fairly polar 3betting range in BB.
So basically KJs/AJs/JJ/TT/JTs/KQs/89s/weak Ax-suited are all pure or high frequency 3bets from the BB.
So if BB lacks these hands completely BU nuts- and rangeadvantage are so huge that frequency AND sizings for the whole range moves up a lot (which is kind of a rare coincidence).
On the other hand BB will defend a lot of Ax combos by flatting. So bare A-high boards are a lot worse for the BU vs BB scenario.
Thats the reason why you will see a lot of checks for BU on various Axx boards or a choose of small sizings.
This will still be true on AKx, but due to the lack of BB to hit strong 2p or sets, these boards will also be bet on a higher frequency and a bigger sizing.
But usually more like 60%-100% pot rather than crazy like 250% stuff going on at JTx simply because BB still has a lot of Ax-combos.

April 27, 2022 | 6:15 p.m.

This looks good to me.
In general we got to keep in mind that 44 is mixed here pre and post. So as long as you dont always/never call pre and dont always/never start bluffing every small PP, you will have a good mix i guess.
So these small pairs are good candidates to simply check down from the flop on as they have indeed some SDV or they make up for a good triple barrel bluffs on a save runout.

This is mainly due to their good unblocking effect of Villains XC/XC/XF range.

So interestingly 44 is a much better candidate for this move in this spot than 9T or QT for instance as hands like 99//TT/89s could be part of a range that folds to 3 barrels.

Just dont make the mistake to randomly bet flop and/or turn and then give up without a clue OTR!

April 27, 2022 | 2:51 p.m.

HodorIsKing

Flatting AK vs most positions beein IP should be a good exploit vs a pool that could be 3betting not enough.
But there is also a good theoretical reason to flat AK more often esp. vs BB.
In theory the BB gets 3bet more polar vs all positions and the correct answer vs this strategy is to 4bet more polar.
In this scenario AK becomes more of a call because BB will jam or fold more often vs your 4bet and AK has no incentive for this.

April 26, 2022 | 11:07 a.m.

General rule of thumb for deepplay is to 3bet less oop, because positional advantage skyrockets if playing 500BBs deep.
And if we decide to 3bet my guess is that it needs to be a lot bigger, like 6x or even more maybe?
But we usually want to go even more polar this deep from the BB, so still i guess flatting is superior.
So i would say this should be basically a pure call pre.
As played: Flop and turn seem standard.
OTR our hand will be fairly indifferent between call and fold. So any small read on villain or your pool could make this a call or fold.
In general i tend to fold here as the T adds a tiny bit of SDV to villains bluffingrange and so the probability of a bluff could go down.
But a good player should be aware that a bare T is worth about nothing here and could still pull the trigger.
But overfolding is rarely a mistake

April 26, 2022 | 10:50 a.m.

Basically a mix I assume. AK has good attributes to justify both options and so we could just hit the RNG and decide.

April 26, 2022 | 10:20 a.m.

Cant highlight an important concept that Warrior mentioned here enough:

We can not protect versus strong draws.

That is the main reason why monotone boards are mostly played pretty passively and with small sizings already HU.
The only handclass that is theoretically incentivized to play huge bets is Nutflushes or nutflushblockers. Not enough to create a range for that sizing.

This will be even more a thing 3way where to probability of players already having a flush (as their colldcallingrange pre should most be suited hands) is even higher beside that fact that there is 6 cards in play rather than 4.
So equities will be a lot more distributed between all parties.

April 26, 2022 | 10:17 a.m.

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