RaoulFlush's avatar

RaoulFlush

850 points

GTO+ is about 80$ and is comming witb a nice trainingtool. combined with the skypgroup of active RIO-members (and a lot of sims as Mudkip mentioned) is a great tool.
Just send me a pm if you want to join.
Greetz

Oct. 23, 2020 | 7:30 p.m.

Any infos on his 4b tendencies? So is there even any possibility that this guy wakes up with AK here?
If not (which should usually be the case) i like your line.
Unblocking his folding is good here and your range advantage is huge and i guess even vs a tight defending range, this play should work often enough.
Preferable bluff than any Qx/Jx combo that we get here with often when we 3bet more linear.
Like it

Oct. 23, 2020 | 12:18 p.m.

I guess his gap between flop- and turnCB might answer this.
If a player who overCB flops skips the CB on a board that most players would rangebet and then B/B, it gets hard to find any bluffs im general I would say

Oct. 23, 2020 | 10:33 a.m.

So if we are in an GTO-environment we should always force the maxEV line (what pio spits out always). So if we face pure strategies, betting/checking is always the preferable line (so vice versa the other option losses EV).
If solvers start to mix strategies there shouldnt be a difference in EV at all between both options and so only frequencies get interesting.
We might simplify sometimes, but a loss of 4 Chips is huge and so we should never rangebet this certain spot then.
Not sure about a concrete tolerance tbh, but i guess everything above .5 chips should already be too much to choose the simple way?

Oct. 23, 2020 | 10:16 a.m.

If he is cbetting this much, i expect a lot of SDV in villains checkingrange OTF, like AK, JJ, TT. So the runout is pretty poor for hero and we might fold exploitively a ton.
I guess diamondblockers are irrelevant here as these players cbet their BDFD usually OTF.
I guess best bluffcatcher would basically be Jx and tbh blocking AK/JJ as well your specific combo qualifies nicely for a bluffcatch (Same would go for QJs as he might check back QQ sometimes OTF).
JT doesnt seem too attractive as some Tx combos might bluff turn that we block here.
But as said: our heavy range disadvantage combined with an underbluffing pool allows us to fold here a ton and we could simply call QJ and JJ ourself only

Oct. 23, 2020 | 9:08 a.m.

Well, raising like 30$ was my initial thought (as it would be exactly pot). I guess calling it 6x+limps sounds like it would be a huge raise. But we are kind of playing 5/5 with Some super shallow stacks due to the straddle.
So my worry would be to see a call of 50 from CO and a shove from BU...
Would be a lot easier fold if we raised smaller...
As i read your description, all these guys seem kind of aggro and sticky and I wouldnt feel great to get into a spot where calling it off with KQs gets mandatory.
Thats why i like the idea of limping behind here.

Oct. 22, 2020 | 8:03 p.m.

Hey guys, a little late here... :)
But some more book recommendations might help:

Play optimal poker - andrew brokos
Modern poker theory - michael acevedo

Greets

Oct. 22, 2020 | 7:53 p.m.

Damn...just realized the straddle: so there is already 25$ in the pot and so making it 40$ is just kind of smallish above pot...
Agree that my idea is bad then as we are nearly commmited with any raise vs BU...
So given this fact i would strictly prefer limping over raising (any sizing)

Oct. 22, 2020 | 7:10 p.m.

limping sounds like a good idea. But what about raising these edgy hands you mentioned pretty small? We dont have any FE (and at least 1 kind of tricky stacksize to deal with that we cannot fold anything if vs if we bomb like 50 pre), but could still raise for superthin value vs their weak ranges and then play super straightforward postflop.
Therefore Villains all seem sticky (so we create a lot of MW-pots), we have an easy time to leverage the pot as the SPR will get small pretty fast OTF/OTT.
And given the small raise we incentivice these guys to stay in the pot with KTo and "get coolered" from you soon or later.

Oct. 22, 2020 | 5:27 p.m.

H1:
I think its fine to take this line here. Kind of interesting how a Kd bocker might influence our decision. I guess it would be preferable as i am not sure if this guy would triple the K-high FD (due to SDV and the fact that it would often include the Jd especially).
We also might take this line with some KQdd/KTdd sometimes maaaaybe? (I guess these hands are usually 3bet pre though).
H2:
I guess betting with the BDFD would be ok, but we get to a point that could be overbluffed pretty fast. Expect the hands that we have seen here often in Villains ranges.
I expect FE to be low usually and would take the same line in a vacuum.

Oct. 22, 2020 | 4:58 p.m.

I guess we might just XF river imo as played

Oct. 21, 2020 | 7:58 p.m.

I guess if the plan is to 4bet fold, its even more important to choose a small sizing for our 4bet, right?

Oct. 21, 2020 | 5:54 p.m.

Not sure if folding this OTR is exploitable at all (esp vs this playertype). Looks like a snapfold to me.
1. villain had several opportunities to bluff with a polarized range that smashes this board. So i dont see any bluffs in his range OTT(eg calling seems not a good idea to me)
2. Villains range is already nuts preflop.
3. Hero cant repp really strong as QQ would usually be a 4bet preflop. So imo bluffing is also not a great idea.

Oct. 21, 2020 | 12:30 p.m.

So i guess our solvers should meet up down the streets at high noon and get this cleaned up forever :)
Not sure which solver you rely on and im sure it doesnt really matter.
The important fact should be to have a well constructed 3betting range that is balanced withe the calling and folding range.
And if the result consistent it doesnt matter if we always/never or mix 3bets with these type of hands.
Didnt want to be rude with my post!
Cheers

Oct. 20, 2020 | 4:24 p.m.

Well, then go for it and take thin value...sounds fine then to me...maybe we could take a look at the chosen sizings here...
So beeing oop and 4betting merged: going down in sizing sounds like a good idea to me as we have to play these pots often (due to lack of FE)?

Oct. 20, 2020 | 2:08 p.m.

Serious post or trolling?
Whatever about knowing (or not) what a rangebet is...
But telling ppl (without giving a real reason for it as you have no clue about heros range here) to NEVER (do anything basically) 3bet this hand in this spot is simply a bad advice imo...
Btw...my solver tells you to ALWAYS 3bet here...so there is no black and white and everybody up in here from now on has to 3bet here 100% lol

Undoubtfull proof:

Oct. 20, 2020 | 2:01 p.m.

So i see KQo betting here 50% of the time. Is my assumption correct that it is the combos including blockers?

Oct. 19, 2020 | 6:12 p.m.

The problem is that i expect a lot of folds vs 4bet from these guys.
So i guess hands that have better blockingeffects to their continuing range qualify beter (4betting more polar) for bluffing.
So even though its tough to play TT here oop, i would punish these guyz by 4betting more of these weak broadways or suited rag Ax.
TT seem too strong to me to bluff them pre.

Oct. 19, 2020 | 6:07 p.m.

Agree...its a close spot in 6max and already and i expect to be it more of a fold/call the 4bet in FR (more often a fold i guess)
12% should defo be 4bet%. I would stick more to a 4bet range stat though.

Oct. 19, 2020 | 6:03 p.m.

Comment | RaoulFlush commented on BTN vs BB 3bet pot

Yeah...to tank with this specific combo is good (a fold would even be better) as it blocks your bluffingrange so hard.
I guess btw overbetting isnt bad at all as we have no thin valuebets here anymore vs this guy (I guess AJ specifically).
But is still think the smaller (bluff) is preferable due to inelasticity of villains calling range

Oct. 18, 2020 | 8:35 a.m.

Comment | RaoulFlush commented on BTN vs BB 3bet pot

I like your line and the mentioned reasons for this.
I would be very careful with bluffing this runout as there are so many natural bluffcandidates. However: the combo you chose is good imo as you unblock all FD and most OESD/GS combos.

But i guess we are mostly targeting AK/AQ here, so we dont need to overbet. Any TP/OP will be calling anyways.
Wp

Oct. 18, 2020 | 8:07 a.m.

Im not a fan if betting the turn here with this combo.
1. Even beeing MP we get to this spot with a lot of garbage that missed this board. So KQ is still somewhat high up in the part of our non pair hands.
2. So if we start to bet every KQ/KJ/KT combo here we are overbluffing this spot massively.
3. Im not 100% sure that pop tend to overfold to your line as there are 2FD on the board.
So i guess bluffing this spot might be backed up with some blockers maybe? Best case would be like KhQc to rep some flushes OTR?

Oct. 18, 2020 | 8 a.m.

Sounds very reasonable to me. Beside the fact that im more tempted to bet my rag AXhh combos i guess im playing the rest of my range exactly as you mentioned.
But imo villains range should be a bit whider (basically a lot more hands with BD-potential) and so i expect a bit more FE OTT from stronger hands than Ah4h (like AcTc etc) and are totally fine with a fold of KsQs as well.

Oct. 18, 2020 | 7:42 a.m.

So my vacuumplay would be

  1. Mixing calls/4bets
  2. Pure call
  3. Pure 4bet
  4. Mixing calls/4bets

But any info on villan or the rest of the table might change my play here (except 2 i guess which i would rarely play another way)

Oct. 17, 2020 | 10:16 a.m.

Comment | RaoulFlush commented on 25z 99 Deep

Not a fan of the XR either. Even though i dislike villains sizing OTF i doubt a random bet with AK here and so i doubt that we are denying any equity by raising. Would just take the good price here and call.
It would also be a disaster if we would have to fold vs a 3bet by KK or the NFD OTF

Oct. 16, 2020 | 8:10 p.m.

Is the described range for value only (so + some bluffs)? In general i would play more of a polarized 3betting range in these positions.
But agree that KQo shouldnt be in 3betting range here regardless of the chosen strategy.

Oct. 16, 2020 | 10:25 a.m.

I agree on calling here. Therefore Hero is supposed to 4bet at least a decent amount of AK in CO, Villain is allowed to go broke here with TT/KK/AA/QJs/QTs/JTs/45s and maaaaaaybe even AQ.....
I also expect some bluffs on this runout as hero is capped at JJ at best (+maybe K9ss).

Oct. 16, 2020 | 7:57 a.m.

l like the idea of XR AK (maybe even AQ) OTT a lot. range check doesnt mean to XC whole range. We might also end up with a miracle 3x here from time to time (A3s/34s).
We could do this exploitaviely for straight value only or, if wee want to find some balance, add some weak 8x here as a bluff (expect hero to 3bet quite polar with some T8s stuff or so).
Therefore its hard to even search for bluffs for this move, i expect a lot of folds with this line. So im still not quite sure if it might be better to „attack“ Villains floats by XC....

Oct. 16, 2020 | 7:33 a.m.

That would be my reasoning to check range OTT. This way its fine to XC/XF KK as our whole range is protected here.
I would still assume some floats from „a loose reg“ OTF, so XF with KK OTT feels nitty as well.

Oct. 16, 2020 | 6:42 a.m.

So you are assuming to never get bluffed here?
Then we have an easy XF OTT.
We shouldnt underestimate the amount of Ax hands in villains range. So imo This a spot that is important to be balanced as it occurs so frequently. Might construct a game tree here, but betting turn (regardless of sizing with this hand) sounds wrong to me. You delete the option of villain making a mistake by bluffing at any point and lower the ev of bigger bets with strong hands.
Or would you simply bet stronger hands (AA/AK) simply bigger? This might be fine then exploitively.

Oct. 15, 2020 | 6:38 p.m.

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