Bryce Yockey

If we're only trying to rebuff another ace I think a min raise/small raise does plenty. I assume we are gonna raise/fold so why risk your whole stack? I don't really think that he can call with ax, I'd only jam if you think it could also get him to fold a full house as well. Seems unlikely since his most likely boat is KQ, probably doesn't have enough KT to fold. Might not fold kj anyways 

Can't seem to edit. in regards to hand 1 and 2 I don't mean pat, I mean keep the badugi

Hi Stephen, we talked about doing some baduecey discussion while we were at dinner in Florida, and this seems like a decent place to start. 

The first hand I'm usually going to pat headsup and will usually consider patting 3 ways. if my opponents frequently  draw for the 2-7 half too often then I will almost always pat

This hand is substantially weaker and I would break it from the start even heads up unless my opponent is drawing 3, or gives up on the big bet street a lot.

Third hand I draw 2 always

4th hand I would draw 3.  This hand varies from 2347hhh in that it makes a substantially worse 8 and worse 7s so your hold over the 2-7 half is much shakier than it seems. Given that you're drawing for half you really want to be really comfortable pumping money in when you actually make a 7, therefore you really want a #1 or 2. The biggest problem with these hands in general is that drawing and not reraising before the draw is fairly transparent as a one way 2-7 hand, but raising means putting money in with a hand that isn't really strong enough on its own merit

This is a fairly good hand to raise and snow later, but you have to play vs people who can fold. Not common at lower stakes. Target people who open and draw 3 a lot

It's 3 and its not close

One spot I think it's interesting is completeing as the only low card in Stud8. I never do it myself, but it seems like a good opportunity to just attack the antes with decent but not great hands (maybe like 3J2hhh?)

I'd never do it in stud hi

he probably capped 3rd street thinking it's really hard for you to be ahead of split queens, given that there are two Kings and an Ace out. Since 4th street is almost never improves your hand, i would check/call and c/r 5th street on blanks. After he pairs his door card, we can't raise anymore unless we make a boat. On 7th, I would call even though it looks a lot like trips. He might still have AA, or KK, maybe even JJ

just realized this was a 2,1 spot not 1,1, but most of my previous post is still accurate. 3betting your 9s now has more merit cause he can show up with a J or T or worse 9s much more, but I still think 96 is a good candidate for freezing.
I would 3bet 87 most of the time instead of calling now

always both, unless you have a near lock for high (top boat, nut flush or something similiar).
Nut lows are much weaker than nut highs, because as you said, they can be duplicated and you can get quartered.

For preflop play focus on hands like suited A2 or A3, A34x, A2KJ, double suited A wheel, AQQ3 and so on.

Seeing a flop with very good high hands multiway is also fine, something like QQTTss is pretty strong, as is like AQKTss

yea, he's probably more likely to have TT than 88, might have J9, might have like 55, T8, or have complete air.
Raise again

I suppose if i pot he might not bluff raise, but maybe he will. My bet size is more based on the fact that I don't have many bluffs, so when your range is mostly value, you should bet smaller (according to game theory)

I could be convinced to not bet, but at the time I was sold on the fact he was gonna c/f worse 8x, so I thought I should bet. I think its pretty thin, but if we dont bet this, our valuebetting range is gonna be like KT+, its not like JT gets called by many worse hands that K8 does. The only difference is A8, and to be fair that could be a big enough difference, but at the time I thought his calling range was wide enough.

haven't read any responses yet, approaching this from trying to play GTO in this spot.


1) Should PatPat be raising the turn here with QQ or Q9?
No, I think he's best off protecting his bluff catching range by calling with all his nut hands. Given the SPR on the river, he's going to get a lot of his remaining stack in against worse boats anyways. By calling, he will substantially lower the profitability of your river bluffs which are the predominate part of your range when he has Q9 and especially QQ.

2) If not, we can assume he has no turn raising range, correct?
Yes, if we have no value range, we also have no bluffing range

3) If so, does he raise thinner for value than Q9?
If you did choose to raise QQ and Q9, I think you should probably also raise Q7 even if it's a little thin, because I'd like to be able to bluff raise the turn with some more interesting holdings like AKQJ and possibly get a fold from 99 or 77. In order to do that, you would need more Queen's full combos.

4) Can I call with my whole range and be "balanced" enough that he doens't know I'm calling river 60%+?
You could call with the whole range you continue with and it would still include some hands that may fold river such as your worse bluff catchers that don't improve, like TT or JJ. You may have to include more bluff catchers in order to balance the fact your range includes a lot of hands that will never fold.

5) Is balance important in my spot, or am I thinking about balance incorrectly?
People usually think of balance as having both weak and strong hands, but it's more about range diversity. Ideally our range is distributed in a manner than minimizes his profitability of all his options from this point forward (when he chooses to raise). We want to find a strategy that minimizes the combined profit of both his bluffs and valuebets and I think do that best by continuing to the river with some nutted hands, some strong bluff catchers we will never fold, and some weak bluff catchers we will.

6) Can I raise any hand other than Q9 or QQ for value?
I don't think so, range shrink up too fast after he raises the turn.


Extra Credit:
7) I could call with most of my continuing range and construct a range that leads rivers. Could this be a viable strategy?
It would be interesting. I think i would only lead a A, K, Q, J, or T, as his range probably includes too many Q9 combos to lead anything else. You would lead nut boats and a proportional number of bluffs. However, I'd assume he's valuebetting Q9 at an incredibly high frequency on the river anyways, and is correct to do so. Overall I think it's probably best to always check.

8) How would being 100bb deep affect your strategy here?
Well, I'm not sure i understand the question because if you had 100bb, his turn raise would be an all in. So I would call with Q7+ combos, and hate my life with 77 and 99 but probably call.

9) How would being 500bb deep affect your strategy here?
I would probably never 3bet the turn as his range is still too nutted. I would be more likely to bluff raise rivers on high cards. Not sure beyond that, would have to think about it more

I was thinking that he might choose to turn like KKhh or JJ9hh into a bluff on the river given that he knows most of my range is like 8xxx on the turn and the T improves me very little. He also knows i dont have a boat often, and by raising he's repping a boat and maybe AT (seems unlikely).

It's kinda a weird spot because my betting range is so narrow after calling the turn. I can't just snap fold K8 just because its the bottom of my range, because my range includes so few hands in the first place. Like I rarely have a full house (slow played T8 is about it, maybe T2 very infrequently), so once I bet I have like A8, K8, Txxxhh, probably with some straight potential, which there aren't a ton of combos of that either.

It doesnt really make sense for him to have TT cause it reduces my valuebetting range even further, and reduces the number of hands I can bet/call with. If he has quads, he's just gonna bet. He's much more likely to show up with T8, 82, or T2 than TT imo. Obviously those hands are somewhat unlikely given that i have an 8, and he shouldnt have many 82 or T2 combos in the first place.

not quite sure I get why Qxxxcc is more of a call, if his most likely bluffing hand is a bare Q, doesn't that significantly reduce his combos of bluffs? I understand it also reduces the frequency he has Queens full, but it reduces that at a lesser degree does it not?

thanks

Also I accidently clicked on "flag this post as inappropriate", is there a way to undo that?

hands you probably wouldn't want to 3bet would be
something like a 96, given he is probably not check/raising a lot of worse hands, only a J and T trying to get a break like Phil said. Those would probably fold a lot a 3bet.
If he has a better hand he's not likely breaking 87, so you're costing yourself a bet. Against specifically 97 or 98234, he might break but that would be bad for you, since he would go for 0% equity to like 30%

You would generally want to 3bet premium hands, occasional air (maybe you have like 87763) and maybe a few wheel draws planning to draw no matter what he does.

I would probably be call/calling all my 87s against almost all player types. against players who will c/r J and T, you're usually gonna destroy them in position if you just hold onto any 9 or better. They are also on a bit of an awkward spot being OOP on the river if you draw cause you'll be playing the river nearly perfectly, so you'll recoup some profit there

Id really like this as well

Personally I would play a mixed strategy between betting and checking.
it would be pretty hard to balance, and I wouldnt be able to do it without knowing your 3bet range. I think cbetting 100% on this board texture is pretty bad because as you said, he isn't folding much.

Personally, I would probably bet/fold this hand on the flop, barrel turned spades and check/fold most others. I'm not super happy about any of our options with this specific hand, but I don't want to check/call, not really a fan of check folding when we have a gutshot, and As, and we need to bet/fold some hands in our range if we played a mixed strategy on the flop, so I think this is a fairly good candidate for it.

The higher your pair, the more often you should play the pair.
Other considerations are
1) if your sidecards are lower than your 3 flush, you will foul less often when you miss your flush, but foul more often when you make it.
2) If you have a 2 flush to go with your 3 flush, you should be more inclined to play the three flush because flush flush is worth a lot.
3) if breaking up your 3 flush gives you a natural way to make strong pairs. For example if you have KJT8Ksss,
playing
8
JT
KK
is probably superior to a hand like
KJ
KT8sss