Jbarez - I dont see the point of your comment beside antagonizing but I will play along this time :) "Too much".
For me it means I will by default cbet AQhigh RFI UTG on that board if checked to and ceasefire if called, and fold if raised.
That huge deviation you mention is not that huge - if GTOwiz is checking 63% is cbetting 37% - I have AQo in my 37%.
Back to the question "Is my play too weak?", Imo it is. I would make one attempt at stealing on the flop as well.
March 4, 2021 | 7:33 p.m.
With villan line I am thinking it's 55s or 33s 9 times out of ten. Its not even 10s-QQs as you can have KK & AA so they would proceed carefully. And I personally do not think they bluff wider to consider this a profitable call.
March 4, 2021 | 11:35 a.m.
x/shoving, x/r - both options put villan in a nasty spot.
I personally exclude completely x/c because I dont want to put myself in a shitty spot otr I'd much rather put him in that spot ott.
I am losing to 10 combos, but dominating all the 1 pair + draws hands.
I would x/c turn if it was an A not a 9.
March 4, 2021 | 10:55 a.m.
But we do mate, we get to fold other non pair hands/charge draws. We play the whole hand in position. turn goes x/x i get to see the river for free and maybe improve.
Long term strategy I also want my UTG cbet contested. I have AQo but I also have 77+. So I dont mind folding if my cbet gets x/r.
As played how do you know SB didnt stab 8x/A4/A3 on the turn?
I said I would cbet range from UTG vs SB - I didnt say I'd go balistic blast tripple off on any runout :)).
March 4, 2021 | 10:02 a.m.
Question 1: So on the flop this board pretty much misses my UTG RFI range.
Not really - you should have more pairs RFI - UTG than Broadways cards, therefore you actually have all the overpairs and top set so I'd 100% cbet this flop.
March 4, 2021 | 8:47 a.m.
I dont think this qualifies as a punt - you just semi-bluffed to the river with a bunch of outs, missed out on your draws and gave up on river. With diamonds in our hand and no sdv I would not triple off more than 1/3 pot size on the river as last resort.
I also like the option of x pre as I would have 100% of range and leave villan in no mans land If I decide to raise flop/turn/overbet etc.
March 4, 2021 | 8:44 a.m.
TPLancaster - I know, its based on suits RNG and who's the btn - don't think I am not 3b AK or AQ. My idea was that should also be included sometimes in the flatting range. Thing is that on AJ4 if I am always 3b AJ pre and why not include A4s as well, what do I have in my x/r range beside 44s? Nothing, so instead of playing face up I prefer to cold call some of the Ax pre.
March 3, 2021 | 2:53 p.m.
RaoulFlush I dont mind the sqz I mind the sizing of it and the overall situation it puts hero afterwards. And the pool matters a lot if not everything because if that sqz came at 200nl you'd get 3 folds.
I am not saying that %,GTO or EV wise everybody is wrong and I am right. I am saying that every hand Stoic posts its an OOP blunder which somehow results in a stack loss. How about we do a better job helping him at core not in 1 hand? By saying dont make huge pots OOP which have a minor EV than the exact same hand in position, you act 1st on each street, and you have a very slim chance of winning it without the nuts etc....
March 2, 2021 | 7:42 p.m.
My whole point, if possible, is to avoid making big pots with low SPR - OOP with marginal hands and avoid the tough spots.
Stoic is asking - is this standard or overplay? - To me is overplay you have a hand that looks great but doesnt perform well vs AQ or AK or even AJs for that matter, is behind/flipping most pairs, you are OOP and put yourself in a shitty spot. Stop convincing him this is a spot he should put himself in and try to help him understand the fundamentals. This hand is far from standard.
March 2, 2021 | 7:23 p.m.
Here is where I start to have a problem with this analysis instead of looking at the hand objectively - as the question was asked - Bad or good play?
Can we not look at GTO for one second and look instead at the entire context? its a 3b pot OOP vs 3 opponents.
Hero shouldnt always 3b, should definetly not lead, and should not stack off given the entire context.
If I am asking myself what does the 3b pre achieve - my answer is - I am almost always isolating myself vs a better hand (pair or Ahigh which crushes me AQ,AK) OOP. So in other words I am helping position win a bigger pot.
Looking for minimal or marginal +EV spots OOP is not a 2nl priority if you ask me.
March 2, 2021 | 6:06 p.m.
Hi RaoulFlush - "So not sure why bet% is so big"
The bet % is so high because we can have anything and everything on the btn on these 3 particular boards: overpairs, TPTK, all the pairs + gs or oesd, flush draws, top 2, bottom 2, top & bottom, sets, pair + bd flush or straight, straights.
1/3 in SRP BTN vs BB (x/f) is pure autoprofit. So the solver likes a lot the 90% cbet in this spot for this reason.
Does a lot of checking with the bottom of the range such as 106 or 66, 77, 55.
Now I am assuming, but I believe the solver changes the cbet% if we keep the board textures but go down a notch with low boards i.e. 643, or 754.
March 2, 2021 | 11:45 a.m.
Hi whiteshark! - I love the questions and the thought process. I do not know the GTO correct answer but I believe this is also based on your 3b BB stategy vs the cold call strategy and how you balance that out.
I personally have even AK and AQ in my BB call range based on rng. I find that this balanced BB strategy allows me to have more value in my x/r simply because I cold call more nutted hands pre. On that particular board - AA is the only combo I would not have in my cold call BB range. On this board I'd x/r JJ,44,J4s,A4 for value and wheels and broadways with b/d potential as bluffs.
To answer the question "If we don't really have a value component to construct our raising range around, what do we do here?" - Construct the value range by defending wider and more pasively. Assuming BTN opens for 2.5x it only cost you 15bb to see 10 flops.
March 1, 2021 | 10:39 a.m.
Its a very strong line the BTN is taking based on flop sizing on such a dry board, so he polarized his hand I assume get value from 88 to QQs lets say. I cant remember the last time someone took this line and had anything else but AA or KK.
Also its a poor play on villan side so I would not reward it by calling, I'd punish his poor play by folding.
March 1, 2021 | 7:28 a.m.
I have a few questions on the topic - input greatly appreciated!!
How do you guys label opponents? I believe this is a very subjective topic as someone that plays 13/13 VP/PR would consider someone else that plays 22/19 a loose player and 31/24 a loose cannon.
Do you have certain guidelines or label subjectively?
If you have guidelines what are your stats for each of them?
How many labels you have?
After how many hands you label opp besides recriationals?
So far I only had, recreational, regs(tight/agg), agrofish, nits and loose/agg - I put loose passive such as 40/5 into the rec group. I am wondering if I am doing some incorrect labeling.
Feb. 28, 2021 | 7:35 a.m.
I am 2-3 weeks old to this forum/RIO ess member. This is the first time I am hearing this concept of EV of range not hand and I love it. Thank you GTO Warrior for the question and thank you all for the answers provided!!
Feb. 26, 2021 | 4:16 p.m.
Good vibes good vibes! Keep in mind that money dont make people, people make money!
It's character, determination, curiosity, focus, discipline, patience, money management, adaptability and controlling emotions the skills that make a great poker player. Keep in mind that everytime you step up from 25nl 6-max to 200nl HU you are tangling all the above principles.
Good vibes again good vibes again!
Feb. 25, 2021 | 7:26 a.m.
River sadly is a check/fold. That's a board that favours BTN range not UTG. They have more 9x.
Try going for a bigger size pre with AA or KK from UTG or HJ. 3x 3.5x.
BB got an insane price to crack your AA and BTN has position on both all the way to the river.
Feb. 24, 2021 | 8:55 a.m.
Achieves the same as hero line in this hand in terms of monetary loss.
My question is, how do I protect my range vs x/r on flops in 3b pots? Simple - by reraising value hands. Would do the same with Sets, top 2, or KKs or AA. so sometime I will do it as a bluff to balance.