R0b5ter's avatar


501 points

Post | R0b5ter posted in NLHE: Donk betting

Hi guys, I'm an old semi retired pro who hasn't been that active in the game for the last few years. I want to catch up a bit with what I've missed so I recently purchased Pio Solver. A thing I've noticed when playing again lately is that some people seem to have incorporated donking into their games. When I use to play full time donking was usually frowned upon. In some situations, I can't recall any pro's that had donk bets in their range. Now this seems to have changed a bit and when looking into Pio it indeed seems GTO to split your range into donking certain holdings.
So now I'm wondering a few things and hope to get some feedback from the community.

  1. Do you have a donking range? If yes in what situations? 3bet pots? singe raised pots? Board texture, etc..

  2. I personally feel that it is very difficult to split your range in one more line. I would prefer to just have a check/call, check/range, check/fold range than trying to balance in donking. How big of an EV mistake do you think this is?

  3. I remember a Sean Leffort (sry if misspelled) video from many years back where he taught me to just have a raise or fold range from the SB vs the BT. This helped stabilize my range a lot since I think I was having a hard time balancing a calling range in the SB vs BT. I'm thinking not having a donking range is kind of the same thing?

In general, my guess would be that certain GTO lines are just too hard for a lot of players to balance and deleting one of the lines and concentrating on being as balanced as possible in the other lines is more profitable. What do you guys think about this? Love to hear your comments.


Edit: Are there any recent videos that bring up this concept?

June 19, 2019 | 1:28 p.m.

Haven't worked on my tourney game for many many years. Figured I want to catch up. What are the best tournament software that is used these days?


May 21, 2018 | 7:55 p.m.

4bet preflop imo

May 5, 2018 | 7:10 p.m.

I agree with above posters. You can't fold here. I also don't like the turn sizing.

Finally you say that you shouldn't't have a calling range preflop. I disagree with this. Especially in a live game. Do you want to elaborate on that?

May 5, 2018 | 7:07 p.m.

Transitioned from 100% online to 90% live a couple of years ago. Main things that come to mind.

  • Raise larger
  • Play more hands like suited connectors, suited one gapors, all suited aces etc. This is especially true IP.
  • cbet with a lower frequency
  • Exploit players much more. Forget about GTO in a lot of spots
  • bet sizing can through people off. A lot of people play very bad vs overbets or minbets.

Feb. 9, 2018 | 3:55 p.m.

Depends on how deep you are as well imo

Jan. 27, 2017 | 5:21 p.m.

Dec. 11, 2016 | 8:20 a.m.

Don't take this the wrong way but I don't like a lot of the lines. Feels very explo and far from GTO. Lot's of spots you seem to split your range and I doubt you balance it. Could be wrong though and I know you get away with more explo play in tourneys (I'm a cash game player). But I at least would start raping people who seem heavily unbalanced in certain spots. Like I say though I could be wrong. But that's me feeling from the video.

Dec. 10, 2016 | 2:06 p.m.

Comment | R0b5ter commented on $10/20 6max


Nov. 1, 2016 | 6:51 p.m.

This thread feels like 2006

Sept. 20, 2016 | 4:05 p.m.

Stelios, I have some comments.

Chapter 1.
Hand 1: The concept of wanting to play your pots vs the "fun" players is super standard. Online and live.
Hand 2: I don't agree that isolating the fun players a lot is a mistake by itself. First of all the other regs at the table will probably understand your concept from hand 1 and not 3bet that much to keep the fun players in the pot. Secondly when playing live we can have effective stacks of several hundred bbs. This changes the hand value of so many hands and we will want to play a lot more hands, especially IP vs fun players.

Chapter 2.
All of these examples are really not that interesting since they are so specific to the casino rules. If we are visiting a casino that implements certain rules the winrate will probably not be effective enough for us to make an effort in changing our standard lines. If we are playing a lot at a casino that implements certain rules like you describe than developing a non standard strategy is worth the effort but then it will be very specific.

We need many more Live videos since the game is gravitating a lot towards live games.

As a start though I'd say that concepts that need to addressed are general live game tendencies like limping, playing deep, playing vs maniacs, tells etc.

Garret Adelstein had a great series going here a few years back but unfortunately he stopped it after just a few videos. It would be great if someone could take over.

I've changed my game from online 100% to live 95% the last 2 years and I think it's extremely fun and profitable.

May 25, 2016 | 12:40 p.m.

Comment | R0b5ter commented on Live 2/5 Hand ... NYC

Never trust what players said they had. If you really want to know ask after the session. At least in my experience people will be more honest after they are done playing.

April 7, 2016 | 10:39 a.m.

Post | R0b5ter posted in Chatter: EPT TWO OF THE SAME CARD

Sitting and chatting with a friend and we both vaguely remember an EPT incident where there were 2 of the same cards in the deck. We've both Googled but can't find any info. Does someone remember this as well or are we both a bit too drunk?

Dec. 27, 2015 | 6:50 p.m.

I'm getting constant advertisement from beyond tells because I signed up a couple months ago. I watched the free promotional videos and really liked what I saw. I play about 50% live these days and really feel that I need more live content. Would love it if RIO could provide this but hasn't happened as of yet. The beyond tells program is crazy expensive though at $800. Has anyone here purchased the package?

Nov. 29, 2015 | 11:37 a.m.

Very very sad news.

The last post by GameTheory in this thread is creepy to say the least.


Aug. 3, 2015 | 3:30 p.m.

RIO should add a bitcoin payment option

July 22, 2015 | 7:39 p.m.

June 23, 2015 | 11:59 a.m.

June 16, 2015 | 7:34 a.m.

June 13, 2015 | 10:28 a.m.


Proably the best game I've played this year. There are at least 4 big fish at the table who are all at least 300bb deep.

Fish 1 (MP) limps
Fish 2 (CO) raises to 25
LAG (BT) regular who's been very active and doesn't seem to be scared to get it in (he played AK for stack 2 times already preflop 300-400bb deep). Calls
Hero (SB) calls with 4h3h (Effective stacks are 1600.)
BB Fold
Fish 1 call

Flop: 3d,4c,9d
Hero check
MP check
CO bets 130
BT calls
Hero calls
Fish 1 calls

Turn: Qc
Hero check
MP check
CO check
BT bets 280
Hero All in

So I'd like to hear what people have to say about all streets.


May 27, 2015 | 8:27 a.m.

May 25, 2015 | 7:43 a.m.

Don't worry about being exploitable vs fish. Also min raises from fish are more often than not nutted IMO.

May 17, 2015 | 5:55 p.m.

Ganford is awesome

March 24, 2015 | 11:08 a.m.

Wow! This is awesome! Congrats to both of you!

March 22, 2015 | 8:08 a.m.

Pre: 3bet bigger for sure

Flop: Wouldn't fault you for making a super explo fold vs this player. Or at least call and fold if he bets big on the turn. What is this player type check raising on the flop? No bluffs probably so that leavws value. Is he check raising hands like AQ, KQ? Personally I feel that is usually not the case. So that leaves sets.

March 5, 2015 | 8:59 a.m.

Hope I didn't come off as too harsh in the above post. Not my intention. What country are you playing in by the way?

Feb. 26, 2015 | 11:10 a.m.

No one has commented on your preflop call. Calling a 3bet from MP vs UTG raiser seems pretty bad with 98s imo. Even if there are several callers. Also I really hate your flop raise. I play live as well and see people making this play a lot and each time I laugh inside since it's awful from a range perspective.

Feb. 26, 2015 | 11:08 a.m.

Comment | R0b5ter commented on 4th year bellow EV

You are incorrect.

Feb. 11, 2015 | 10:28 a.m.

Post | R0b5ter posted in NLHE: Live 3/3 Is my line alright?

Live 25/25 SEK which is about equivalent to $3/3

Hero: On the button with about 5000 SEK
Villain UTG with about 3500 SEK. Villan is a fish who has made several very questionable moves.

Villain min opens to 50.
3 callers.
Hero 3bets to 300 with K4s
Villain calls.
Everone else folds.

Flop: 4c, 7s, 9h

Villain checks to Hero.
Hero checks.

Turn Qs.

Villain bets 400
Hero calls

River 4h

Villain bets 150
Hero raises to 1300

Looking for feedback on all streets especially flop. Feels like this is a check back since we have show down value and my guess is we won't be called by worse but maybe this is incorrect when villain is such a fish who might call with overs? Plus betting gives us some protection and also the possibility to barrel vs slightly better hands and to make them fold.

Jan. 19, 2015 | 8:14 p.m.

Jan. 12, 2015 | 3:06 p.m.

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